[00:00:01]
[ERCOT Phase 2 Bridging Options Workshop ]
WE GET STARTED, UH, LET ME MAKE A FEW, UH, UH, ANNOUNCEMENTS.UM, THE ANTITRUST ADMONITION WAS ON THE SCREEN AS THE MEETING STARTED, SO PLEASE BE AWARE OF THAT.
UM, I, I HAVE A COUPLE OF THINGS I, I WANTED TO SHARE WITH EVERYBODY, UH, STARTING WITH, UM, UH, UH, A POINT THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE HAD A DEADLINE FOR COMMENTS RELATIVE TO THE, THE COMMENTS BEING INCORPORATED FOR THIS MEETING.
SOME FOLKS HAVE TAKEN THAT AS A DEADLINE FOR ALL COMMENTS, AND WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT IT THAT WAY.
UM, YOU'RE WELCOME TO SUBMIT COMMENTS OR ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, UH, TO US IF, UH, THERE'S, UH, SOMETHING VALUABLE THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO SHARE.
UM, AND WE'LL TAKE THOSE, UH, WHEN, WHENEVER FOLKS CAN KIND OF PUT THOSE TOGETHER, IF YOU, YOU KNOW, UH, IF, IF THOSE COMMENTS DON'T COME IN AROUND 10 DAYS BEFORE THE BOARD MEETING, UH, I CANNOT GUARANTEE YOU THAT, UH, I, I CAN GET IT ONTO A BOARD PRESENTATION BECAUSE I ACTUALLY HAVE TO GET THOSE TO OUR TEAM, UH, RELATIVELY EARLY REL AS FAR AS THE BOARD MEETING GOES.
SO, I BELIEVE MY DEADLINE IS SOMETHING LIKE APRIL 1ST, UH, FOR, FOR MY PRESENTATIONS.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE CAN ALWAYS TRY AND UPDATE THINGS, BUT, UH, I, I THINK AFTER THAT DATE, SOME MATERIAL WILL BE ALREADY SUBMITTED TO THE BOARD.
UM, I BELIEVE TAC IS PLANNING ON TAKING THIS ISSUE UP AT ITS MEETING ON THE 21ST OF, UH, MARCH.
AND, UM, WHAT I WOULD LIKE TO USE THIS WORKSHOP FOR IS, UM, I GUESS SEVERAL THINGS.
THE FIRST IS THAT WE TOOK ALL THE COMMENTS THAT, UH, PEOPLE HAVE FILED, AND DAVE IS GONNA WALK THROUGH HOW WE, UH, REPRESENTED, UM, THOSE COMMENTS.
AND I WOULD LIKE EVERYBODY TO LET US KNOW IF WE MADE ANY ERRORS OR, UH, OMISSIONS IN THE WAY WE, UH, ASSEMBLED THE COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED, UH, TO REPRESENT DIFFERENT PEOPLE'S POSITIONS.
UH, I WOULD LIKE TO SPEND SOME TIME WHERE WE GET TO ASK, UM, SOME OF THE COMMENTERS, SOME, SOME QUESTIONS.
UM, AND AT THAT POINT, I'M WILLING TO KIND OF USE THE REST OF THE TIME AS THE ATTENDEES SEE FIT.
YOU MAY HAVE SOME FOLLOW UP QUESTIONS FOR US, AND WE CAN SPEND TIME ON THAT, BUT, UM, UH, I, I DO WANNA MAKE SURE WE ARE REPRESENTING PEOPLE'S POSITIONS ACCURATELY AND, UM, GIVE US A CHANCE TO MAKE SURE WE UNDERSTAND THE FILED COMMENTS.
SO, UH, THAT, THAT'S KIND OF THE PROCESS THAT WE PLAN TO GO.
IN CASE ANYBODY MISSED IT, UM, WE ARE WILLING TO TAKE CO ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, UH, THROUGH APRIL 1ST.
UM, I DO THINK, UH, IF YOU WANT YOUR COMMENTS CONSIDERED AT TACK, YOU WOULD NEED TO DO SOME SOMETHING OTHER THAN APRIL 1ST, UH, AS FAR AS THAT GOES, UH, AS TACK MEETS ON THE 21ST OF MARCH.
DAVE, I'M GONNA GO AHEAD AND HAND IT OFF TO YOU AND LET YOU KIND OF WALK THROUGH THE MATRIX THAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER, AND THEN WE'LL GO FROM THERE.
AND BEFORE WE DO THAT, I GUESS THERE'S A COUPLE THINGS KIND JUST IN, UH, TO POINT DOWN IN RELATION TO WHAT YOU WERE JUST SHARING.
UM, I GUESS FIRST, IN CASE FOLKS ARE LOOKING FOR IT AND DID NOT SUBMIT COMMENTS, WE HAD POSTED THE COMMENT FORM ON BOTH THE MEETING CALENDAR PAGE FOR THE WORKSHOP ON THE THIRD, AS WELL AS THE ONE TODAY.
SO IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR THAT FORM AND, AND STILL WANT TO SUBMIT COMMENTS OR, OR PERHAPS SUBMIT, UH, UPDATED COMMENTS THAT THAT FORM IS AVAILABLE THERE.
UH, THE ONE THING, UH, HANAN THAT YOU DID NOT MENTION FOR THE AGENDA TODAY, BUT DID JUST WANNA BRING IT UP, THERE WERE SOME QUESTIONS AND COMMENTS REGARDING THE PRESENTATION THAT BLAKE HAD SHARED LAST MEETING REGARDING O R D C.
UH, WE'VE POSTED AN UPDATED PRESENTATION TO TRY TO ADDRESS SOME OF THOSE QUESTIONS THAT CAME.
UH, I THINK JUST, UH, WHAT WE'D LIKE TO DO IS SORT OF PUT THAT AT THE END OF THE AGENDA TODAY FOR, WE CAN PULL THAT UP AND KIND OF WALK THROUGH WHAT WAS ADDED.
[00:05:01]
FAIRLY SELF-EXPLANATORY, BUT, BUT BLAKE CAN SHARE THAT AS WE HAVE TIME AT THE END OF THE MEETING.SO JUST WANNA MENTION THAT AS WELL.
UH, BEFORE I, AGAIN, PAMELA, WHAT DID YOU HAVE? YEAH.
THIS PAMELA SHOT OR CUT? UH, JUST WANTED TO LET EVERYBODY KNOW I'M GONNA BE RUNNING THE QUEUE ATTEMPTING TO RUN THE QUEUE AGAIN.
UM, HOWEVER, IN THE ROOM YOU CAN TRY AND WAVE AT ME.
LAST TIME WE DIDN'T HAVE IT SET UP SO WELL, BUT I THINK I CAN SEE YOU ALL AND BLAKE'S GONNA HELP ME.
SO IF YOU WANNA GET IN THE QUEUE, JUST WAVE YOUR HAND OR WHATEVER.
AND IF YOU'RE ON THE WEBEX, OBVIOUSLY PUT A COMMENT THAT YOU WANNA, UM, HAVE A MINUTE AND WE'LL TRY AND ORGANIZE ALL THAT.
WE'LL TRY TO GET EVERYBODY IN ORDER, CAN'T MAKE A PROMISE, BUT, UM, JUST WANTED TO MAKE THAT SHORT PUBLIC ANNOUNCEMENT.
SO, I, I GUESS, AGAIN, JUST ME SPEAKING TO JUST A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THE MATERIAL WE HAVE POSTED FOR THE MEETING, UH, TODAY.
THERE'S A COUPLE OF FILES I WANT TO CALL OUT, AND THEN I'LL, I'LL GO THROUGH SOME OF THEM.
FIRST IS, UH, THIS SECOND FILE HERE IS A ZIP FILE THAT CONTAINS ALL OF THE COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED THROUGH END OF THE DAY MONDAY.
SO THOSE WOULD BE THE ONES THAT, UH, WE'LL LARGELY FOCUS ON ON THIS, UH, THIS MATRIX.
I'LL TALK, UH, ABOUT IN THE SECOND.
UM, WHAT WE'VE REALLY DONE IS, IS PUT A VERY HIGH LEVEL SUMMARY OF THOSE COMMENTS, BUT WE DID WANNA MAKE SURE ALL THOSE COMMENTS WERE AVAILABLE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE.
SO, AS, AND IN FACT, AS WE SORT OF GO THROUGH THE CONVERSATION TODAY, WHAT I'M EXPECTING IS PEOPLE WILL WANT US TO PULL UP THOSE COMMENTS AND BECAUSE THOSE WILL REALLY BE, MAYBE HELP GO THROUGH SOME OF THE, UH, CONCEPTS THAT PEOPLE HAVE SHARED.
THE SECOND, UH, FILE, AND THIS IS THE ONE I'LL OPEN, IS, UH, IS IT THAT DRAFT SUMMARY THAT THE, THE STAFF HAD PUT TOGETHER.
SO THANK YOU, UH, ALL FOR, UH, TRYING TO GET YOUR COMMENTS IN BEFORE THE END OF THE DAY.
MONDAY, OBVIOUSLY A BIG GOAL OF WHAT WE WANTED TO DO WAS TO TRY TO UNDERSTAND, UH, WHERE FOLKS STOOD AND, AND, AND TRY TO SUMMARIZE THAT.
AND WE KIND OF NEEDED THAT FULL DAY OF YESTERDAY TO PUT THAT TOGETHER.
SO, UH, LET ME PULL THAT UP AND SORT OF WALK THROUGH HOW WE WERE TRYING TO VIEW THE INFORMATION THAT WAS COMING IN.
SO PERHAPS THE EASIEST THING TO BE WOULD BE JUST A SORT OF START WITH, UH, A SUMMARY.
AND BEFORE WE KIND OF TALK ABOUT THE MAYBE, UH, SORT OF, UH, A SUMMARY OF THE FEEDBACK, JUST TRY HOW WE WERE TRYING TO CAPTURE IT, UM, WHAT WE PUT TOGETHER, YOU KNOW, AS YOU ALL HAD GONE THROUGH THAT COMMENT FORM, WE HAD BROKEN IT DOWN INTO EFFECTIVELY SIX DIFFERENT OPTIONS THAT ERCOT HAD LAID OUT.
UH, AND SO WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO CAPTURE FOR THOSE SIX OPTIONS WERE, WERE FOLKS GENERALLY IN FAVOR OF THE OPTION.
DID FOLKS THINK THE OPTION HAD SOME MERIT, BUT HAD SOME MODIFICATIONS TO IT OF, YOU KNOW, FOR EXAMPLE, PERHAPS PEOPLE LIKE THE IDEA OF CHANGING O R D C, BUT WANTED TO DO IT IN A WAY OTHER THAN HOW WE HAD PRESENTED AT THE LAST MEETING, OR WERE FOLKS JUST SIMPLY OPPOSED TO THE OPTION.
SO THOSE ARE THE THIRD, THE SORT OF THREE CATEGORIES THAT WE TRIED TO BREAK DOWN FEEDBACK INTO.
NOW, THERE WERE SOME CASES IN WHICH FOLKS DIDN'T NECESSARILY HAVE A PARTICULAR STANCE ON AN OPTION, AND SO YOU MAY SEE AS YOU SUM UP THESE COLUMNS, THEY WON'T BE EQUAL TO THE EXACT NUMBER OF COMMENTS THAT WE GOT BECAUSE OF THE FACT THAT THAT NOT ALL FOLKS NECESSARILY TOOK A POSITION ON IT.
UM, IN ADDITION TO THAT, AND WE'LL GO TO THE TAB, OF COURSE, THIS ONLY COVERS THE OPTIONS THAT ERCOT HAD LAID OUT.
OF COURSE, SOME FOLKS HAD SOME ALTERNATIVE OPTIONS AS WELL.
AND I THINK THAT'LL BE A LOT OF THE DISCUSSION THIS AFTERNOON.
UM, IF WE GO TO THE NEXT TAB, WHAT WE HAVE IS FOR EACH OF THE ENTITIES THAT SUBMITTED COMMENTS WE TRIED TO CAPTURE FOR THEM WHAT I WAS JUST DESCRIBING, RIGHT? SO, UH, WERE THEY IN FAVOR OF THE OPTION? WERE THEY, YOU KNOW, THINK IT HAD SOME MERIT, BUT BUT WANTED SOME MODIFICATIONS TO AT LEAST WHAT WE HAD INITIALLY SHARED LAST TIME, UH, OR WERE THEY OPPOSED TO IT? AND THEN WE ALSO, IN AN OTHER COLUMN, TRIED TO CAPTURE ANYTHING AROUND, UH, WAS THERE AN ADDITIONAL PROPOSAL THAT THEY HAD OR PERHAPS AS SORT OF SOME KEY TAKEAWAYS OF WHAT WAS SHARED.
UH, ONE OF THE THINGS, UH, THAT WE WANT TO GET OUT OF, UH, WELL MAYBE, MAYBE IT WON'T BE NECESSARILY GO LINE BY LINE THROUGH IT TODAY, BUT WHAT WE WANT PEOPLE TO DO IS AS WE WALK THROUGH INDIVIDUAL COMMENTS, TO THE DEGREE FOLKS DISAGREE WITH, UH, SORT OF HOW WE'VE CATEGORIZED THEIR COMMENTS TO PLEASE REACH OUT TO, TO US AND LET US KNOW.
AND THOSE ARE OF COURSE, THINGS THAT WE CAN A ADJUST PART OF WHAT WE WANT TO SHARE.
AND I IMAGINE WHAT, WHAT CANAN WILL BE PRESENTING AT
[00:10:01]
ATTACK IS TRYING TO UNDERSTAND WHERE FOLKS ARE ON ALL THESE DIFFERENT TOPICS.AND SO THE FACT THAT WE'RE CATEGORIZING THEM CORRECTLY BASED ON YOUR FEEDBACK IS, IS IMPORTANT TO MAKING SURE THAT WE DO THAT APPROPRIATELY.
SO I, I THINK THAT'S SORT OF BROADLY HOW WE LAID IT UP BEFORE I KIND OF TALK ANYMORE.
BUT I'M GONNA PAUSE AND SEE IF THERE'S ANY QUESTIONS ON THE, ON THE SPREADSHEET THAT WE PUT TOGETHER.
PAMELA SEEN ANYTHING IN THE QUEUE? DOES THAT MAKE SENSE TO EVERYONE THEN? SO I GUESS WHAT I'D LIKE TO DO THEN WITH THAT IS MAYBE JUST FOCUS FOR NOW ON THE SUMMARY, UM, AND JUST SORT OF MAYBE SHARE SOME SORT OF KEY TAKEAWAYS AND I'LL, I'LL LET KAAN AND, AND SOME OF THE OTHER, YOU KNOW, PAMELA AND BLAKE AND OTHER STAFF THAT HELPED PUT TOGETHER THIS, THIS SUMMARY, SPEAK TO IT.
UH, I WILL SAY JUST OFF THE BAT THAT WHAT WE WERE SEEING IN TERMS OF THE RESPONSES IS, IS FAIRLY IN ALIGNMENT WITH SOME OF THE FEEDBACK THAT WE WERE GETTING AT THE MEETING, UH, A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO.
AND THAT IS, UH, WHERE WE SAW SOME OF THE, UH, HIGHER LEVELS OF MOMENTUM WERE AROUND OPTION THREE.
THIS WAS MAKING, UH, ENHANCEMENTS TO THE O R D C, UH, AT LEAST TO THE DEGREE THERE WERE MORE YESES THAN NOS WITH A FEW FOLKS WHO WERE PROPOSING SOME MODIFICATIONS TO WHAT WE HAD TALKED ABOUT.
UH, SO THAT ONE CERTAINLY STOOD OUT TO US AS, AS HAVING SOME, AT LEAST A FAIR AMOUNT OF PEOPLE IN FAVOR OF, OF CONSIDERING THAT FURTHER.
UH, AND THEN THE OTHER ONE WAS OPTION SIX, I THINK THE COMMON TERM USED FOR OPTION SIX, AND THIS WAS THE PUBLISHING OF INDICATIVE PCM VALUES TO A DEGREE, WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH PCM AT ALL.
AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT HAVE TO HAPPEN BEFORE THAT'S UNDERSTOOD.
UH, THE COMMON TERM I THINK WE SAW WAS SORT OF A NO REGRETS THAT IF WE ARE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH PCM TRYING TO COME UP WITH A WAY TO DO SOME INDICATIVE CALCULATIONS ASSOCIATED WITH, SEEM TO BE, UH, SENSIBLE.
UH, YOU KNOW, AND I, I THINK THE, THE PRIMARY BENEFIT THAT WE SEE, AND THAT WE, I THINK WE SAW THIS IN THE COMMENTS AS WELL, IS TRYING TO JUST SORT OF UNDERSTAND THE MECHANICS AND UNDERSTAND HOW IT'S WORKING AND, AND MAYBE EVEN RIGHT OFF THE BAT, FIND SOME FLAWS IN THE WAY WE'RE THINKING ABOUT IT, UM, BEFORE WE ACTUALLY GET INTO FULL IMPLEMENTATION.
SO THAT SEEMS TO BE A, A, A VERY, UH, REASONABLE, LOGICAL BENEFIT OF, OF TRYING TO LOOK AT SOME INDICATIVE PCM CALCULATIONS, AGAIN, ASSUMING THAT WE'RE GIVEN DIRECTION TO MOVE FORWARD AS THE LONGER TERM PHASE TWO SOLUTION.
UH, IN GENERAL, FOR A LOT OF THE OPTIONS THERE WERE, THERE WERE SOME FOLKS WHO, UM, SAW SOME MERIT IN THEM OR WERE IN FAVOR OF THEM, UH, ALTOGETHER, BUT IN GENERAL, THEY, THEY LARGELY HAD LARGER AMOUNTS OF, OF OPPOSITION FROM THE COMMENTS THAT WE RECEIVED, UH, UP THROUGH MONDAY.
SO THAT'S A, A HIGH LEVEL SUMMARY AND I'LL, I'LL, I'LL PAUSE THERE FOR EITHER SOME QUESTIONS OR IF KAAN OR OTHER, OR FOLKS WANNA ADD MORE TO THIS INITIAL THOUGHTS, UH, I'LL JUST MAKE ONE COMMENT.
UM, UH, I, I JUST DON'T WANT ANYBODY TO THINK THAT OPTION SIX AS A STANDALONE IS A BRIDGE SOLUTION.
IT, YOU, YOU WOULD NEED TO PAIR IT WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
UM, SO I, I DON'T WANT PEOPLE TO TAKE THE, UH, AND I DIDN'T TAKE PEOPLE'S COMMENTS THIS WAY, BUT I DON'T WANT SOMEBODY JUST TO LOOK AT THIS, UH, MATRIX AND GO, OH, WE, WE SHOULD JUST DO OPTION SIX AND, AND CALL IT A DAY.
UM, I, I, I DON'T THINK IT IT WORKS THAT WAY, BUT WE WOULD DEFINITELY BE WILLING TO DO THAT AS KIND OF AN ADD-ON TO O OTHER SET OF COMMENTS.
YEAH, THAT'S A GOOD CLARIFICATION.
AND I GUESS IT, IT, THAT IS CONFUSING PRESENTING IT AS AN OPTION, BUT THEN SAYING IT, IT CANNOT BE CHOSEN.
IS THAT GONNA BE, ARE YOU GONNA MODIFY THE WAY THIS IS PRESENTED WHEN YOU TALK TO THE BOARD? CAN YOU SPEAK UP PLEASE? I CAN TRY AGAIN.
IT SOUNDS REALLY LOUD IN THE ROOM.
UM, I, I WAS JUST POINTING OUT THAT THAT'S CONFUSING, CALLING IT AN OPTION, BUT IT'S NOT ONE THAT CAN BE CHOSEN.
IT SOUNDS MORE LIKE A NICE TO HAVE AND THAT YOU'RE GONNA, YOU WERE LOOKING TO FIND IF PEOPLE WERE OPPOSED TO IT VERSUS SUPPORTING IT AS ONE OF THE SIX OPTIONS.
I, I THINK THAT'S, UH, USEFUL FEEDBACK.
UM, I THINK WE SHOULD PROBABLY TRY AND GO BACK AND, AND CLASSIFY THAT.
MAYBE THINK, THINK ABOUT CLASSIFYING IT DIFFERENTLY.
IT'S, IT'S, UH, I WOULD PUT IT IN A CATEGORY OF IT'S BENEFICIAL TO HAVE IN THE INTERIM, BUT IT'S NOT REALLY A BRIDGE IN, IN THE FORM OF MOVING
[00:15:01]
MONEY OR ATTRACTING INVESTMENT OTHER THAN MAYBE, YOU KNOW, I, I MIGHT THINK ABOUT TAKING THAT AND, AND IMPACTING AN INVESTMENT DECISION I'M ALREADY MAKING.BUT, UH, YEAH, WE, WE PROBABLY NEED TO RECLASSIFY THAT.
COULD YOU EX EXPLAIN WHY I'M NOT TRYING TO BE, UM, YOU KNOW, NITPICKY HERE, BUT TO THE EXTENT THAT, YOU KNOW, WHETHER YOU BELIEVE THIS IS TRUE TO THE EXTENT THAT YOU DO BELIEVE THAT THE PCM CAN ENCOURAGE GENERATORS TO NOT RETIRE, FOR EXAMPLE, KNOWING THAT, UM, IT HAS SOME VALUE ABOVE YOUR COSTS IN THE FUTURE BASED ON THIS ASSUMPTION SET, SEEMS LIKE IT COULD MAKE A DECISION AT, AT MINIMUM ABOUT AVOIDING RETIREMENT, RIGHT? YEAH, I, I THINK, UM, IT WOULD BE A DIFFICULT STRETCH TO, FOR, UH, AT LEAST, I MEAN, I, I I, I SEE YOUR POINT, BUT TO ME, UM, AS, UH, FROM ERCOT POINT, POINT OF VIEW AND REVIEWING THE, UH, UH, KIND OF COMMISSION DIRECTIVE, UH, WHEN, WHEN I PUT, YOU KNOW, WHEN I HAD THIS IN THE PRESENTATION, IT DID NOT CHECK ALL THE BOXES.
UH, SO IT WAS, UH, I, I VIEWED IT AS AN ADD-ON.
I THINK I DESCRIBED IT THAT WAY, BUT THEN WHEN WE PUT IT OUT, WHEN WE COMMUNICATE THIS WAY, IT DOESN'T MAKE THAT DISTINCTION, UH, FAIR ENOUGH.
I THINK TO YOUR POINT, THERE WILL BE SOME VALUE BOTH FOR EXISTING AND FUTURE INVESTMENT MM-HMM.
UH, AND I THINK THAT'S WHY WHERE IT FALLS A LITTLE SHORT.
AND ALSO, JUST FOR THE RECORD, SINCE THIS IS THE FIRST TIME I'M SPEAKING TODAY, UM, I'M NOT SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF ANY PARTICULAR CLIENT IN THIS WORKSHOP TODAY, BUT I'VE SPOKEN WITH ALL OF MY CLIENTS, AND I APOLOGIZE IF I HAVE TO REPEAT MYSELF, BUT IT'S MORE IMPORTANT TO BE CLEAR, I THINK BILL BARNES.
SO KAAN, WE WERE KIND OF VIEWING OPTION FIVE IN THE SAME WAY OR SIMILAR WAY AS THE INDICATIVE PCM, RIGHT? IF WITH OPTION SIX, IF, UM, IT'S CLEAR THAT WE'RE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PCM BASED ON WHAT WE SEE COMING OUTTA THE LEGISLATURE, THEN WE SHOULD PUBLISH INDICATIVE VALUES ANYWAY.
WE DID THAT FOR MARKET OPEN, WE DID THAT FOR O RDC, WE, IT JUST, IT HELPS THE MARKET UNDERSTAND THE CONCEPT AND START TO DIGEST HOW IT'S GONNA FUNCTION.
BUT WITH OPTION FIVE, WE JUST, WE BELIEVE YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT ANYWAY, RIGHT? WE DON'T REALLY SEE THAT AS A QUOTE BRIDGE SOLUTION, BUT IT'S PART OF THE TOOLS THAT ERCOT WOULD USE IF THERE HAPPENS TO BE A RETIREMENT NOTICE FILED SOMETIME IN THE NEXT FEW YEARS.
WE FEEL LIKE YOU'RE GONNA DO THAT ANYWAY, OR IS THAT NOT THE CASE? THAT'S KIND OF MY QUESTION IS, IS ARE YOU STILL CONTEMPLATING WHETHER YOU WOULD APPLY DISCRETION TO SIGN A CONTRACT FOR A RETIRING GENERATOR BEFORE WE HAVE A LONG-TERM RESOURCE ADEQUACY SOLUTION OR NOT? I, I, I THINK THAT OPTION TO YOUR POINT, IS CURRENTLY ON THE TABLE FOR US.
SO IT IS A POTENTIAL THING THAT POTENTIAL ACTION THAT ERCOT COULD TAKE.
IT'S IN THE PROTOCOLS, IT IS, UH, BEEN USED BEFORE.
UM, SO I, I DO TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT FALLS IN THAT CATEGORY.
THE ADDITIONAL ACTION OR CHANGES THAT WE WOULD POTENTIALLY MAKE TO THE EXISTING RULES IS TO ENHANCE THE TIMEFRAME THAT WE'RE LOOKING AHEAD.
UM, SO, BUT AGAIN, I TEND TO AGREE WITH YOU THAT AS A STANDALONE THAT DOES NOT ADDRESS THE NEW INVESTMENT ITEM AND WE MIGHT WANT TO CALL IT OUT DIFFERENTLY, UH, AS SUCH.
AND DO YOU, SIMILAR TO CARRIE'S QUESTION, DO YOU ANTICIPATE THE DECISION OF WHETHER TO MAYBE MORE FORMALIZE THAT OPTION FOR USE TO BE WITH THE BOARD AS PART OF THE BRIDGING OPTIONS DISCUSSION AND DECISIONS THEY MAKE? IS THAT, IS THAT HOW STAFF INTENDS TO PRESENT THAT TO THE BOARD? I THINK WE ARE STILL WORKING THROUGH, UM, EXACTLY HOW THAT PRESENTATION WOULD GO, BUT MY EXPECTATION
[00:20:01]
IS ALIGNED WITH WHAT YOU JUST DESCRIBED, WHICH IS, UM, A RECOMMENDATION THAT WE MAKE MIGHT LOOK LIKE NOT NECESSARILY IS, BUT MIGHT LOOK LIKE, UH, YOU KNOW, WE RECOMMEND DOING OPTION UH, THREE AND KIND OF ENHANCE IT WITH FIVE AND SIX.THAT IS A, A FORMAT THAT OUR RECOMMENDATION MIGHT TAKE.
I THINK THAT ANSWERS YOUR QUESTION.
THANKS FOR THE CALLER ON THAT.
HEY, KENAN, I'LL, I'LL JUST POINT OUT, I JUST DID A QUICK SCAN THROUGH HERE AND IT LOOKS LIKE THERE'S ONLY ONE PARTY THAT COMMENTED THAT JUST INDICATIVE PCM BY ITSELF WOULD BE A SOLUTION.
IT LOOKS LIKE EVERYBODY HAD AT LEAST A MODIFIED OR SOME OTHER YES.
SO MAYBE THAT WOULD BE A WAY TO MODIFY THAT AS JUST TO COLUMN, MAYBE SPLIT THAT INTO TWO THAT SAYS BUY ITSELF AND COMBINE WITH SOMETHING ELSE.
SORRY, THAT, THAT'S A GOOD POINT.
UH, I THINK IT GOES BACK TO CARRIE'S POINT AS WELL.
WHAT I THINK THERE'S A BETTER WAY, UH, THERE'S, THERE'S A REALLY TIGHT TURNAROUND FOR THIS.
UM, AND J OUR, OUR MAIN GOAL HERE IS, WELL, I, I, FIRST OF ALL, I REALLY APPRECIATE THIS FEEDBACK, BUT OUR OTHER MAIN GOAL IS TO MAKE SURE WE DIDN'T MISCHARACTERIZE ANYBODY'S COMMENTS.
UM, SO WE WILL TAKE, UH, THE FEEDBACK YOU'RE GIVING AS A HOMEWORK ASSIGNMENT AND WE CAN ENHANCE THE, THIS, UH, THIS DATA AND, AND KIND OF CAPTURE SOME OF MORE OF THE NUANCES THAT WERE COMMUNICATED.
SO, KAAN THAT, THAT IS LARGELY WHAT I WANTED TO SHARE IN THIS SPREADSHEET.
AGAIN, UM, MY, MY UNDERSTANDING IS THAT IN TERMS OF, UH, PEOPLE PROVIDING THE FEEDBACK ON THAT, UH, CHARACTERIZATION THAT IT PROBABLY IS BEST SERVED FOR FOLKS TO REACH OUT TO STAFF INDIVIDUALLY UNLESS THEY, UNLESS THEY WANNA DO SOME CLARIFICATION WITH THE GROUP HERE.
BUT OTHERWISE, UH, I THINK THE NEXT STEP WOULD BE TO, TO JUMP INTO SOME SPECIFIC COMMENTS THAT FOLKS HAVE.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF YOU'D LIKE TO START FIRST WITH SOME FOLKS WHO HAD OPTIONS THAT WERE DISTINCT FROM WHAT WE HAD PRESENTED LAST TIME.
UM, SO WE'VE KIND OF SPLIT THIS UP AND I HAVE THE, UH, HEN UH, PROPOSAL.
SO, UH, I HAVE JUST A FEW QUESTIONS ON THAT, THAT I WANTED TO ASK.
UM, BUT CAN WE MAKE SURE THAT OTHER MATRIX THAT'S SUMMARIZING PEOPLE KNOW WHERE THAT IS ONE MORE TIME? YEAH, SURE.
JUST, UH, SO THE, THE TITLE OF THE FILE IS THE DRAFT ERCOT SUMMARY OF PHASE TWO BRIDGING OPTION FEEDBACK.
AND THAT IS THE, THE SPREADSHEET I HAVE OPEN.
UH, THERE IS THE TWO TABS WHERE WE JUST HAVE A, A SUM OF, UH, RESPONSES IN THESE VARIOUS CATEGORIES, ONE OF THE THREE THAT WE'VE, UH, ASSIGNED THAT I TALKED ABOUT.
AND THEN THERE IS A, A SEPARATE TAB CALLED, CALLED MATRIX THAT HAS FOR, UM, FOR EACH OF THE FOLKS THAT WE HAD, AND I THINK THIS IS MORE OR LESS JUST SORT OF THE ORDER WE REVIEWED THEM IN.
SO, UH, THAT, THAT, THAT'S, AS YOU'RE GOING THROUGH THAT, THAT'LL BE SORT OF THE LOGICAL ORDER.
THERE'S NO OTHER SORT OF RHYME OR REASON NECESSARILY TO IT THAN THAT, BUT YOU'LL SEE THAT VALUE ACROSS EACH OF THE DIFFERENT COLUMNS.
AND THEN AGAIN, THERE'S THAT, UH, ADDITIONAL COLUMN THAT WE HAD THAT TRIED TO CAPTURE SOME, SOME, SOME OTHER KEY FEEDBACK AS WE WERE THINKING THROUGH IT, OR ALSO TO DEGREE PEOPLE HAD AN OPTION THAT WAS NOT ONE OF THE SIX THAT WE COULD TRY AND CAPTURE IT, UH, AS WELL.
AND AGAIN, IT'S VERY HIGH LEVEL, SO THIS IS MORE OF A, HEY, THAT SOUNDS, I WANNA UNDERSTAND THAT BETTER.
I NEED TO GO READ THE COMMENTS.
DAVE, I DID HAVE A SUGGESTION FOR FORMAT OF REVIEWING STAKEHOLDER COMMENTS.
I WAS WONDERING IF WE COULD START WITH THE IMM GIVE CARRIE HONORS, UM, I'M INTERESTED IN HER PERSPECTIVE ON THESE AND NOTICE THAT SHE DOES, SHE HAS A NO BESIDE ENHANCED OR IDC, WHICH IS KIND OF SURPRISING TO ME.
SO I WOULD, I WOULD LIKE TO HEAR PER HER PERSPECTIVE, PROPS FIRST.
CARRIE, UH, WOULD YOU BE WILLING TO WALK THROUGH THAT, YOUR COMMENTS RIGHT NOW? YES, I'M WILLING TO DO THAT.
UH, I THINK SHAMS WANTED TO BE RECOGNIZED.
CAN, NO, I JUST SAID ON THE HAND IT SHOULD BE A YES ON THE ENHANCED ALREADY, SEE SINCE WE ARE DISCUSSING THAT, BUT YOU
[00:25:01]
ALL BLAKE OR HANG FAMILY, CAN YOU CAPTURE THAT? OKAY, GOOD.SHAMS? NO, CARRIE, I'M GONNA HAND THE MIC OFF TO YOU IF THAT'S OKAY.
AND I WON'T SPEND A TON OF TIME ON EACH ONE.
UM, IT SOUNDS LIKE BUILD PROBABLY THE MOST SURPRISING TO YOU, IT SOUNDS LIKE WAS THE O R D C, SO I CAN GIVE A LITTLE BIT MORE INFORMATION ON THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, GENERALLY, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T BELIEVE THAT A BRIDGING SOLUTION IS NEEDED, AND I THINK AS A, UH, THRESHOLD ISSUE, IT'S NOT CLEAR TO ME WHETHER THIS IS INTENDED TO PREVENT RETIREMENT OF GENERATION OR TO BUILD NEW GENERATION.
I THINK THOSE ARE TWO DIFFERENT GOALS, AND AS I LOOKED AT THE OPTIONS, I FOUND IT, UM, UNDERSTANDING THE PROBLEM STATEMENT, A LITTLE BIT TRICKY.
UM, SO, UH, GOING WITH THE OPTION ONE, I THINK WE, YOU KNOW, I THINK READING OTHER PEOPLE'S COMMENTS WE SHARED, WE SHARED THEM ABOUT THE CHALLENGES ASSOCIATED WITH THE MANUAL PCM.
UM, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS THAT NEED TO BE PUT INTO PLACE IN ORDER TO PUT SOMETHING LIKE THAT TOGETHER.
UM, WE'RE CONCERNED ABOUT THE SHAPE OF THE DEMAND CURVE IN PARTICULAR, AND HAD SOME COMMENTS ON THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, OR CUT NOTED THAT THERE COULD PER POTENTIALLY BE A STATIC PERFORMANCE CREDIT VALUE.
AND I THINK THAT WOULD BE, UH, UH, A VERY, UH, UNPLEASANT OUTCOME IN MY PERSPECTIVE.
I THINK IF IT'S GONNA BE DONE IN THIS WAY, WE NEED TO MAKE SURE WE AT LEAST GET THE DEMAND CURVE RIGHT.
UM, FOR OPTION TWO, WE TALKED ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, AND KAAN ADDRESSED THE FACT THAT ERCOT DID CONSIDER WHETHER OR NOT THEY COULD DO SOMETHING LIKE THE UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT, BUT WEREN'T SURE YET UNTIL E C R S IS IN THIS SUMMER.
UM, I THINK THAT'S SOME UNFORTUNATE TIMING.
IT WOULD BE, I, I WOULD LIKE TO ENCOURAGE ERCOT TO SEE IF THERE'S A CREATIVE IMPLEMENTATION OPTION, AND I THINK SHELL POINTED ONE OUT THAT, UM, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE CONSIDERED IN ORDER TO DO SOME TYPE OF UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT TO ADDRESS THE RUCK ISSUE, UH, DEFINITELY DO NOT WANT TO PROCURE ANY ADDITIONAL EXISTING ANCILLARY SERVICES AS, UM, PARTICULARLY NONS SPIN IS IN ILLIQUID MARKET, AND THAT THERE WOULD BE NEGATIVE CONSEQUENCES FROM, UH, PROCURING MORE OF THAT SERVICE IN PARTICULAR.
SO YEAH, LET'S TALK ABOUT THE R D C.
UM, WE HA DON'T, IF I WAS DRAWING THE R D C OR SETTING THE PARAMETERS TODAY, IT WOULD NOT LOOK LIKE THE PARAMETERS THAT THEY ARE.
SO, UM, BUT THAT IS A ISSUE THAT RESIDES AT THE COMMISSION.
WHAT I WOULD NOT LIKE TO SEE IS THIS ARBITRARY FLOOR THAT HAS NO BASIS IN THE UNDERLYING RELIABILITY NEEDS OF THE SYSTEM OR THE ECONOMICS OF THE MARKET DESIGN.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE CLEARED WAY OVER CONE IN 2022.
2022, YES, WAS A HOT SUMMER, BUT, UM, WE DON'T, IT WASN'T, WOULDN'T HAVE PARTICULARLY BEEN, UM, AS SIGNIFICANT WITHOUT THE O R D C UH, SHIFT.
AND SO I THINK THAT THE PHASE ONE WAS ALREADY SIGNIFICANT ENOUGH, AND I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO ADD ANY MORE REVENUE THROUGH THE RDC, BUT THE BIG THING IS THAT IF THIS IS TEMPORARY, IF THE GOAL IS NEW ENTRY, I DON'T SEE HOW IT ACCOMPLISHES THAT GOAL.
UM, THAT'S NOT TO SAY WE'D LIKE TO SEE A PERMANENT RDC FLOOR, JUST TO BE CLEAR, BUT, UM, ANY OF THESE TEMPORARY THINGS ARE, THEY MAY ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL OF AVOIDING RETIREMENTS.
THEY WOULD NOT ACCOMPLISH THE GOAL OF NEW ENTRY INCENTIVES.
I THINK THE SAME IS FOR BACKSTOP SERVICE.
YOU KNOW, UM, IF YOU WITHHOLD A BUNCH OF GENERATION FROM THE RESOURCE, UM, FROM THE MARKET, YOU'RE GONNA RAISE PRICES, UH, IN A TEMPORARY WAY.
I DON'T THINK THAT INTERVENTION SIMILARLY WOULD HAVE, UM, ENHANCEMENT OF ENTRY INCENTIVES BECAUSE THAT WOULD BE TEMPORARY.
UM, WE PREFERRED, IF YOU'RE GONNA DO SOMETHING LIKE THE BACKSTOP TO DO SOMETHING LIKE AN RMR, UM, LIKE BILL WAS REFERRING TO, WE THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING
IF, AGAIN, THE PROBLEM STATEMENT IS TO, UM, HAVE AN ORDERLY EXIT OF GENERATION, AND IF YOU NEED TO KEEP A GENERATOR ON FOR SIX MONTHS OR A YEAR, UH, YOU KNOW, IT, IT'S A COSTLY WAY TO DO THAT, BUT PROBABLY LESS COSTLY THAN PUTTING AN ARBITRARY FLOOR ON RDC.
UM, AND SO AT THE END, YOU KNOW, INDICATIVE PCM I THINK HAS SOME VALUE
[00:30:01]
AS IF PCM MOVES FORWARD, WILL HELP SURFACE SOME POTENTIAL DESIGN FLAWS AS WE'RE PUBLISHING THESE VALUES TO SEE IF THE OUTCOMES ARE CONSISTENT WITH THE UNDERLYING FUNDAMENTALS OF THE MARKET AND CAN GIVE US THE OPPORTUNITY TO TRY DIFFERENT SHAPE DEMAND CURVES, DIFFERENT RISK METRICS, THINGS LIKE THAT, IN ORDER TO HELP INFORM THE FINAL, UH, POLICY CHOICES.ANY QUESTIONS FOR ME? CAN I, I HAVE ONE.
UM, I I I WAS STRUGGLING KIND OF FOLLOWING THE ARGUMENT THAT THE ENHANCEMENTS DON'T DO ANYTHING FOR NEW INVESTMENT IN THAT THE CURRENT O R D C WOULD I, I PRESUME, CREATE AN INCENTIVE FOR NEW INVESTMENT, A AS AS IT HAS IN THE PAST.
SO IF YOU ADD MORE, MORE REVENUE, UM, THAT E EITHER THE AMOUNT OF INCENTIVE FOR NEW INVESTMENT CONTINUES, OR, UH, IT IS, IT MIGHT MOVE UP A, A TICK OR AN AMOUNT.
SO THAT I, I JUST DIDN'T SURE.
I'M, THAT STATEMENT IS SAYING IF THIS IS A BACK, THAT THIS IS A BRIDGE SOLUTION BETWEEN LET'S SAY PCM AND 2026 THEN, AND THEN THE FLOOR GOES AWAY MM-HMM.
AND IF YOU'RE USING THE PCM AT THAT POINT, YOUR DECISION TO BUILD IS GONNA BE BASED ON YOUR EXPECTATIONS OF THE PCM.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA BE BASED ON THE EXPECTATIONS THEY ALREADY SEE FLOOR, CUZ IT'S ONLY GONNA BE IN FOR THREE YEARS.
BUT THE WAY PCM WORKS IS A, UH, IT, IT COVERS A DELTA BETWEEN THE EXISTING REVENUES IN THE MARKET AND, AND CONE OR NET CO, UH, BY, BY MAKING SURE NET CONE GETS TO THE COST OF NEW ENTRY, RIGHT? SO, UM, PCM BRIDGES ANY ONE YEAR'S O R D C REVENUE WITH NO CHANGE TO UH, GET TO THE COST OF NEW ENTRY, I WOULD BE CLOSER TO THE COST OF NEW ENTRY WITH THIS ADDITION.
SO WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS THE FLOOR IS NOT GONNA GO AWAY, IS THAT WHAT YOU'RE SAYING? NO, NO.
UM, WHAT I'M SAYING IS THAT WHEN PCM COMES IN, IT WILL REPLACE THE AMOUNT OF ADDITIONAL REVENUE THAT THE FLOOR BROUGHT IN THE INTERIM.
SO YOUR EXPECT, SO IF YOU WERE TO BUILD IN 2026, YOUR EXPECTATION, THE THE CHOICES, THE CAPITAL CHOICE YOU'RE MAKING IS GONNA BE BASED ON PCM AT THAT POINT.
IT'S NOT GONNA BE BASED ON O RDC BECAUSE O RDC IS FLOOR, IT'S IN FOR THREE YEARS AND IT'S OUT.
WELL, SO LET'S SAY I HAVE A MARGINAL BUILD DECISION AND, UM, FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT, LET'S SAY THAT THAT DIS THAT'S THE BUILD NO BUILD DECISION IS, IS MADE WITH, UH, MY SHARE OF AROUND TWO TO $400 MILLION OF ADDITIONAL EXPECTED REVENUE IN THE ENERGY MARKET.
WOULDN'T THAT, I MEAN, ON THE MARGIN, WOULDN'T I GET SOME ADDITIONAL INVESTMENT IN THAT INSTANCE IF THIS IS A THREE YEAR BRIDGING SOLUTION? I DON'T SEE THAT BECAUSE NUMBER ONE, YOU'RE PROBABLY IN 2026 BEFORE YOU COULD, IF YOU MADE THAT DECISION TODAY BASED ON YOU PUTTING IN A FLOOR ON THE RDC BY THE TIME YOUR COMMERCIAL, THE FLOOR WOULD BE GONE, HOW IS THE FLOOR, UH, HOW IS THE RDC FLOOR FACTORING INTO YOUR CHOICE TO MAKE THAT INVESTMENT? SO YOUR POINT IS MORE BASED ON THE NUMBER OF YEARS IT TAKES TO BUILD THE NEW PLANT.
SO IN THAT INSTANCE, THERE IS NO NEW BUILD INCENTIVE THAT COULD BE OFFERED AS A BRIDGE.
NOW THE RDC AS IT STANDS TODAY IS THAT INCENTIVE AND CAN CONTINUE TO BE THAT INCENTIVE RDC CURVES WILL BE TURNED INTO OUR RTC, UM, DEMAND CURVES WITH RTC AND SO ON AND SO FORTH.
BUT IF YOU TELL ME YOU'RE JUST GONNA PUT A FLOOR ON O RDC REVENUES, UH, I MEAN O RDC ADDERS IN CERTAIN SCENARIOS, AND THAT'S GONNA BE GONE IN THREE YEARS, THAT'S NOT GONNA FACTOR INTO THE
[00:35:01]
DECISION.I MEAN, I, I I UNDERSTAND NOW YOU'RE OKAY.
THE, THE LOGIC I, I GET IT ON.
SO I THINK I THANK YOU FOR THE EXPLANATION, CARRIE.
I THINK I SEE YOUR PERSPECTIVE AND AGREE WITH, UM, SOME OF WHAT YOU SAID, WHICH I'LL SAY FOR WHEN I GO OVER MY COMMENTS, BUT I THINK PROBABLY THE BIGGEST, UM, DISAGREEMENT I WOULD HAVE IS THE ADDITIONAL PROCUREMENT OF OPERATING RESERVES THROUGH THE CONSERVATIVE OPERATING PRACTICES, WHICH I THINK YOU BELIEVE IS INCONSISTENT WITH THE ENERGY DESIGN AND ENERGY ONLY MARKET DESIGN.
MY BELIEF IS THAT IS PROBABLY HERE TO STAY.
AND SO A BETTER REFLECTION OF THE VALUE OF THOSE OPERATING RESERVES WOULD BE EXPRESSED THROUGH ENHANCED RD Z ORDC THAT MATCHES THAT PREFERENCE IN MY OPINION.
AND THAT IS A BETTER WAY TO CAPTURE, UM, THE INCREASED VALUE OF THOSE RESERVES THROUGH THE RDC VERSUS JUST BUYING MORE NONS SPIN.
PART OF WHAT WE WOULD SUGGEST IS YOU ENHANCE THE RDC AND THEN YOU BACK OFF ON SOME OF THE NONS SPIN PROCUREMENT, WHICH, UM, WHO KNOWS IF THAT'S PALATABLE OR ERCOT, BUT I THINK THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE WHERE I HEAR YOU COMING FROM, WHICH I UNDERSTAND.
UM, UM, IN OUR PERSPECTIVE, WE'RE PROBABLY IN A WORLD WHERE WE'RE GONNA BE PROCURING ADDITIONAL OPERATING RESERVES FROM GO NOW ON FORWARD.
SO LET'S EXPRESS THE INCREASED VALUE OF THOSE RESERVES TO THE OR RDC.
AND I ALSO AGREE WITH YOU THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE TEMPORARY.
IT SHOULD BE IF THIS IS WHAT WE'RE GO THIS, THIS IS WHAT OUR MARKET'S GONNA LOOK LIKE GOING FORWARD, THEN IT MAKE THE CHANGE AND IT'S PERMANENT AND IT SHOULD MATCH THE WHATEVER NUMBER THAT WE THINK WE NEED TO CARRY IN REAL TIME.
SO, UM, MAKING THE CHANGE AND THEN REMOVING IT A FEW YEARS DOWN THE ROAD, I DON'T THINK MAKES A WHOLE LOT OF SENSE EITHER.
JUST TO MAKE SURE I UNDERSTAND WHAT YOU'RE SAYING IS WE'RE BUYING ADDITIONAL NONS SPEND, WE'RE GONNA PAY FOR ALL THAT ADDITIONAL NONS SPINN, AND THEN WE'RE ALSO GONNA PAY MORE ON THE RDC TO COUNTERACT THE EFFECT OF BUYING THE ADDITIONAL NON, I'M SAYING UPDATE THAT RDC TO REFLECT THAT THOSE DESIRED APP RESERVES AND THEN BACK, BACK DOWN ON, BACK DOWN GOT IT ON.
YEAH, JUST TO KIND OF FOLLOW ON A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, REALLY THE WAY I LOOK AT THIS, I DIDN'T LOOK AT THIS GOING AWAY.
WHENEVER WE DO, IF WE DO THE PCM EITHER, UH, I THINK OUR COMMENTS SAID THAT IT WOULD BE ADJUSTMENT TO THE RDC BECAUSE REALLY WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, IF THE R IF YOU PUT THE FLOORS IN AND YOU END UP WITH A MARKET EQUILIBRIUM AT SOME POINT, THEN THE, AND IT'S NOT ALL THE WAY TO THE NET CONE, THEN THE PCMS SUPPOSED TO FILL THAT IN.
IF YOU TAKE THAT AWAY, THEN THE PCMS GONNA HAVE TO FILL IN MORE.
AND THAT'S NOT REALLY WHAT I WANT TO SEE AS TO WHERE WE'RE GETTING A WHOLE LOT MORE REVENUES THROUGH THE PH CM AND NOT THROUGH THE ENERGY MARKET.
I WANT THAT TO MAINTAIN SOMETHING REASONABLE.
SO IN OUR COMMENTS, WE SAID YOU PUT IT IN AND THEN YOU'LL EVALUATE THAT ON WHAT ANY ADJUSTMENTS YOU MIGHT NEED TO MAKE TO MAKE SURE THAT IT'S WORKING TOGETHER AT THAT TIME, BUT NOT REALLY GET RID OF IT.
HI, UH, COREY LER IN CHANTED ROCK.
UM, I JUST WANTED TO FOLLOW UP ON WHAT CANAN SAID.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE'VE ADDED ABOUT 500 MEGAWATTS OF DISPATCHABLE GENERATION OVER THE LAST THREE YEARS.
OUR TIMELINE OF DEPLOYMENT, UM, FROM CONTRACTING IS ABOUT 12 TO 15 MONTHS.
SO WE'RE NOT LOOKING AT A THREE YEAR TIME HORIZON TO DEVELOP NEW PROJECTS.
SO IN OUR CASE, THE RDC CHANGE WOULD HAVE AN IMPACT ON OUR MODELING.
WE WOULD LOOK AT THE RDC ALONG WITH THE PCM AFTER THAT TO COME UP WITH OUR MODELING ON WHAT IS AN INVESTIBLE PROJECT.
UM, ALSO ON THAT, THE FACT THAT THE R RDC CLEARED ABOVE CONE IN 2022, YOU KNOW, THAT'S EVERY YEAR IS DIFFERENT, RIGHT? AND SO WHAT WE DO IS WE LOOK AT A, A RANGE OF CASES.
AND SO SOME YEARS IS YES, IT'S GONNA CLEAR ABOVE SOME YEARS BELOW, BUT YOU KNOW, IT'S THE AVERAGE OR NOT THE SIMPLE AVERAGE, BUT, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT OVER TIME ON HOW THAT PERFORMS IS ALL TAKEN IN ACCOUNT WHEN WE'RE, UH, MAKING INVESTMENT DECISIONS.
SO I DO THINK THAT MAKING A CHANGE, THE RDC AND THE SHORT TERM DOES IMPACT DECISIONS.
AND IF EVERYTHING'S BASED OFF THE THREE YEAR TIMELINE, WHICH I DON'T THINK, YOU KNOW, ALL PROJECTS ARE, THEN YOU KNOW, THERE'S NOTHING THAT WE CAN DO OVER THREE YEARS TO HELP OUT.
THE POINT I WAS TRYING TO MAKE ABOUT THE 2022 REVENUES IS THAT IN A GRID IN WHICH YOU'RE MEETING A ONE IN 30 YEAR STANDARD, YOU WOULDN'T EXPECT TO CLEAR 60% OVER CONE.
THAT'S NOT THE EXPECTED MARKET OUTCOME.
THAT IS THE RESULT OF THE ENHANCEMENT OF THE R D C THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DONE.
SO THE POINT I'M TRYING TO MAKE IS THAT WE ARE ALREADY
[00:40:01]
CLEARING, WE ALREADY HAVE MARKET OUTCOMES THAT ARE HIGHER THAN YOU WOULD EXPECT GIVEN THE RELIABILITY OF THE GRID AND THE UNDERLYING OPERATIONAL CONCERNS.UM, THE POINT I WAS MAKING ABOUT THE TEMPORARY NATURE OF IT, AND YOU KNOW, YOU MAY DISAGREE, IT'S JUST IF YOU'RE BUILDING A 40 YEAR ASSET, I'M NOT SURE, UM, SOMETHING THAT'S ONLY GONNA HAPPEN FOR ONE YEAR, A COUPLE YEARS OF COMMERCIAL OPERATIONS IS GONNA MAKE A BIG DIFFERENCE.
BUT, YOU KNOW, SO THE POINT STILL STANDS WHETHER IT'S 18 MONTHS OR THREE YEARS, IS THAT, UM, IT'S TEMPORARY AND IT'S NOT EXPECTED TO CONTINUE.
THERE'S A REQUEST OVER THE, UM, WEB THAT WE SPEAK LOUDER INTO THE MIC.
UM, BUT I THINK THAT WAS UNDER COREY WHEN COREY WAS TALKING.
UM, SO I THINK CARRIE, YOU'RE DOING FINE.
UM, SO THERE WAS THE MAINTAIN EXISTING ASSETS, PROMOTE NEW ASSETS, UM, AND, AND THEN HELP WITH THE RUCKING ISSUE.
AND SO, WELL, YOU KNOW, UNDER RTC, WHICH ISN'T HERE YET, IF YOU, IF YOU'VE THOUGHT ABOUT HOW THE CURRENT RDC WOULD BE BROKEN DOWN INTO THE DEMAND CURVES AND THOUGHT ABOUT THE QUANTITIES AND THE VALUES, UM, YOU PROBABLY LIKE ME, COME TO THE CONCLUSION THAT IF WE PUT THOSE DEMAND CURVES IN PLACE NOW WE WOULD BE SHORTING THE RESERVES THAT ARE TARGETED TO BE PROCURED RIGHT NOW, WHICH INDICATES THAT WHETHER YOU AGREE THAT THAT ECONOMIC VALUE IS, UM, SUPPORTED FOR THAT MUCH RESERVES OR NOT, THAT THAT WOULD KIND OF BE THE RESULT A LOT OF TIMES IS THAT YOU WOULD TRY TO PROCURE THE PLAN AND THEN THE ECONOMICS OF BREAKING DOWN THE EXISTING CURVE WOULD SAY YOU DON'T WANNA PAY THAT MUCH.
AND THEN I THINK THERE WOULD BE SOME PUSHBACK AND SAY, BUT, BUT WE DO WANNA PAY THAT MUCH, AND SO THEY'RE GONNA HAVE THIS DEBATE.
AND SO THAT, THAT WAS AN ASPECT OF IT.
AND SO GIVEN, GIVEN THAT RELATIONSHIP, I GUESS IT, IT'S NOT SURPRISING THAT, YOU KNOW, THE MARGINAL UNITS FREQUENTLY THAT AREN'T GETTING COMPENSATED FOR, UM, PROVIDING THE RESERVES ARE NOT IN THE MONEY BECAUSE EVEN, EVEN UNDER THE CURRENT RDC, THESE, UH, UNITS THAT ARE PROVIDING NONS SPIN WOULD NOT BE PROCURED IF YOU PUT THOSE INTO THE, A DEMAND CURVE IN THE DAY AHEAD.
SO THAT WAS JUST ANOTHER ASPECT.
IT IS NOT SO MUCH ABOUT THE OTHER ELEMENTS OF, OF, OF NEW ENTRY, BUT, BUT ABOUT, UM, YOU KNOW, KINDA WALKING ON THE BRIDGE AND ADDRESSING THESE, UH, UM, THESE CURRENT, THIS OTHER ELEMENT OF THE CURRENT MARKET OPERATIONS THAT'S AFFECTED BY, UM, THE RESERVE POLICIES.
I THINK DAN COVERED PRETTY MUCH WHAT I WAS GONNA SAY IS THAT, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT RTC RIGHT NOW, WE WOULDN'T BE PROCURING NONS SPIN.
CAUSE IT'S ALMOST ZERO VALUE IF YOU DRAW THE, IF YOU BREAK UP THE OR CURRENT ODC.
SO THAT'S WHERE HEN WAS COMING FROM IS THAT WE NEED THAT, UH, CHANGE IN THE RDC TO REFLECT THE DEMAND CURVE THAT WOULD GO INTO RTC AS WELL.
SO VERY MUCH AGREE WITH, UH, WHAT DAN WAS SAYING.
AND THE OTHER POINT IS, YOU KNOW, WE ALSO PROPOSED SOMETHING TO ADDRESS THE ROCK ISSUE.
I KNOW THAT'S A SEPARATE, IT'S NOT QUITE, DOESN'T QUITE FIT IN HERE, BUT THERE WAS A LOT OF DISCUSSION AT THE P U C AND STUFF OF HOW WE FIXED THE ROCK ISSUE.
SO WE HAD A PROPOSAL THERE ON, ON, UM, BASICALLY THE PENALTY FUNCTION THAT GOES WITH THE, UM, ROCKIN.
YEAH, I, I, I MEAN IN THE, UM, IN THE PRESENTATION MATERIALS, IT, IT ACTUALLY, I DON'T REALLY SEE IT MENTIONING ROCK.
I MEAN, I UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S A NICE, A NICE THING TO FIX, BUT, UH, CANON, CAN YOU COMMENT, IS FIXING RUCK A A GOAL OF THE BRIDGING SOLUTION? UH, I THINK FIXING RUCK, UH, AS I SAID AT THE LAST WORKSHOP IS A PRIORITY FOR ERCOT.
UM, BUT THAT IS GONNA HAVE TO HAPPEN IN A WAY THAT DOES NOT ADVERSELY IMPACT THE CONSERVATIVE OPERATIONS, UH, THAT, THAT WE'RE PURSUING.
SO IT, I I TRIED TO KIND OF SAY AT THE BEGINNING THAT THAT IS SOMETHING WE'RE COMMITTED TO.
I WOULD SAY THAT'S A, A BE AN ANCILLARY BENEFIT THAT TO, UH, WHAT, UH, WE PROPOSED.
I MEAN, WOULD YOU SAY THAT IT'S, UH, I'M SORRY I DIDN'T INTRODUCE MYSELF, STEVE REEDY.
UM, WOULD, WOULD YOU SAY THAT, UH, FIXING THE RKA ISSUE IS A GOAL
[00:45:01]
OF ERCOT? AND TO THE EXTENT THAT ANY OF THESE BRIDGING SOLUTIONS HELPS FIX THAT, THAT WOULD BE, UH, A, A GOOD PART OF THE, UH, UH, IT'S SOMETHING THAT WOULD MAKE YOU VIEW THEM FAVORABLY, BUT THAT THE BRIDGING PROCESS IS NOT MEANT TO FIX THE RUSH REC ISSUE? I FEEL LIKE, UH, I'VE BEEN THROUGH A LOT OF DEPOSITIONS IN THE LAST, I'M SORRY, TWO YEARS, AND THIS IS FEELING LIKE ANOTHER ONE.I'LL, I'LL, BUT, BUT I, I THINK YOU DESERVE AN ANSWER.
UH, I, I MEAN, I, I THINK THE BRIDGING SOLUTIONS WERE, WERE PRIMARILY FOCUSED ON ADDITIONAL REVENUE INTO THE MARKET, UM, WHILE PCM IS BEING DEVELOPED, UH, WITH THE GOAL OF, UH, BOTH KEEPING, UH, EXISTING RESOURCES AROUND THAT WE NEEDED AND, UM, AND AT LEAST SENDING A, A SIGNAL THAT IF YOU COULD BUILD SOMETHING QUICKLY, THAT THAT, AND IT, AND IT WAS THE DECISION POINT WAS MARGINAL TO MAYBE TIP THAT IN, IN THE FAVOR OF BUILDING, UH, I WOULD SAY THE RUCK ITEM IS AN ADDITIONAL BENEFIT, BUT I WOULD NOT, I, I WOULD LIST IT, BUT NOT EXCLUSIVELY MAKE OUR BRIDGE DECISION BASED ON, ON THAT ISSUE.
UM, THANK YOU KAAN, APPRECIATE YOUR, YOUR COMMENTS THERE.
UM, I GUESS WE ARE MAYBE APPROACHING THIS EXERCISE WITH PERHAPS MORE SKEPTICISM, UM, ABOUT WHETHER ANY OF THE BRIDGING SOLUTIONS WILL PROVIDE INCENTIVES FOR NEW BUILD AND REALLY VIEW THE, THE FOCUS OF THIS IS ON RETAINING EXISTING, AND YOU, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN'T IGNORE THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN THE RUCK ACTIVITY AND THE IMPACT ON, YOU KNOW, THE WEAR AND TEAR ON EXISTING RESOURCES THAT ARE BEING ROCKED.
AND SO I THINK IT WOULD BE HELPFUL IF, UM, IN ERCOT FEEDBACK TO THE BOARD, YOU KNOW, THEY COULD ROUND OUT WHAT YOU SAID JUST NOW IN RESPONSE TO STEVE'S QUESTION, UH, AND, AND REALLY EXAMINE, UM, THAT AS AN, THE IMPACT ON RUCK IS, IS AN INTEGRAL PART OF HOW Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT THIS.
I THINK ALSO GIVEN THE SKEPTICISM EXPRESSED IN A LOT OF THE COMMENTS ABOUT WHAT WILL INCENTIVIZE NEW RESOURCES, GIVEN SOME OF THE TIMELINES AS CARRIE DISCUSSED, I THINK THAT WOULD JUST ENHANCE THIS CONVERSATION.
WELL, I, I MEAN, AGAIN, IF, UH, WELL, SO I GUESS YOU ASKED THE QUESTION AND I SHOULD ANSWER THAT FIRST.
SO, UH, WE, WE CAN POINT, WE, WE CAN POINT OUT THE DYNAMICS THAT YOU ASKED US TO POINT OUT.
I THINK THAT'S THE FIRST THING I NEED TO ANSWER.
UM, I THINK, UH, THE, THE DYNAMIC WHERE NOTHING WILL HAPPEN IF, IF I WERE TO PUT MYSELF IN THE COMMISSION'S SHOES AND I HAD A CHOICE OF NOTHING WOULD HAPPEN BETWEEN NOW AND THE IMPLEMENTATION OF PCM AND AN OPTION WHERE THERE WOULD BE A CERTAIN RESERVE LEVELS ADDITIONAL REVENUE IN THE MARKET IF YOU WERE AROUND AT THOSE TIME PERIODS, UM, THAT THERE IS BENEFIT TO, TO THAT, UH, BOTH FROM A, A LONG RUN RESOURCE ADEQUACY, UH, PERSPECTIVE AND, AND AN OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE.
SO, UH, YOU KNOW, UM, IF, IF YOU ASSUME ALL NEW INVESTMENT IS NOT GONNA COME FOR THREE YEARS, I THINK THAT REDUCES THINGS SUBSTANTIALLY.
BUT I DON'T NECESSARILY, WHEN I'M LOOKING AT WHAT'S OUT THERE, I DON'T NECESSARILY SEE THAT AS THE ENTIRE POPULATION OF NEW RESOURCES THAT COULD BE BUILT.
AND JUST TO CLARIFY, WHEN YOU SAY WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING IN THE QUEUE, YOU DON'T BELIEVE THE QUEUE IS REFLECTIVE OF ALL NEW RESOURCES THAT COULD BE BUILT THE QUEUE, IT DOES NOT REFLECT WHAT THIS MIGHT DO TO, TO THE QUEUE
SPEAKING OF THE QUEUE, IT'S EMPTY.
UM, AND SHAMS, UH, I THINK I, IF I CAN TAKE THE MIC AND JUST A ASK, UH, YOU ABOUT YOUR PROPOSAL WHEN, WHEN WE REVIEWED IT, UM, OUR, OUR FINDING WAS THAT IT IS NOT NECESSARILY FIT WITHIN OUR BRIDGE TIMEFRAME BECAUSE THERE ARE SOME MATERIAL
[00:50:01]
SETTLEMENT CHANGES, UH, THAT WE HAVE TO DO.BUT I THINK THE ANSWER THAT YOU JUST GAVE IN UPDATING THE SPREADSHEET IS ACTUALLY THE ANSWER I WAS LOOKING FOR, WHICH IS YOU SUPPORT THE O R D C, UH, ENHANCEMENT AND WOULD EVEN ARGUE THAT SOMETHING ALONG THOSE LINES MIGHT BE BE PREFERABLE TO, UH, HE, AS FAR AS A LONG-TERM SOLUTION IS, IS THAT A FAIR UNDERSTANDING OF, OF WHERE YOU'RE AT? YEAH, SO, YOU KNOW, FIRST OF ALL, WE, REGARDLESS OF WHAT DO WE DO PCM OR NOT, WE THINK THE RDC CHANGES ARE NEEDED JUST TO, UM, YOU KNOW, FOR THE RDC TO REFLECT THE DEMAND CURVE FOR ANCILLARIES.
AND THEN ON THE PCM, WE THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, PCM CAN BE MORE EFFECTIVELY AND LESS DISRUPTIVE TO THE MARKET BE IMPLEMENTED THROUGH, UH, ADJUSTING THE RDC.
SO ESSENTIALLY, LET'S SAY YOU EXACTLY WANT TO MIMIC WHAT THE PCM IS DOING.
YOU TAKE THOSE TH SAME 30 HOURS AND ADJUST THE, UH, O RDC IN THOSE 30 HOURS, AND THE CURRENT ERCOT SETTLEMENTS SORT OF ALREADY ALLOCATES IT TO AVAILABLE GENERATION, YOU KNOW, THROUGH EITHER THE ENERGY SETTLEMENT OR THE ANCILLARY SERVICE IMBALANCE SETTLEMENT AND IT CHARGES LOAD, UH, THAT'S DURING THOSE 30 HOURS AS WELL.
SO ALL THAT HAPPENS AUTOMATICALLY.
AND WE, USING, USING THE EXISTING, UM, SETTLEMENT SYSTEMS AS WELL AS ALL THE CONTRACTS, BILATERAL CONTRACTING, UH, THIS WOULD JUST BE LIKE A PRICE PACK THAT HAPPENED IN THE MARKET AND THE BILATERAL CONTRACTING DOESN'T HAVE TO CHANGE MUCH.
OF COURSE, YOU'D, WE'D STILL SAY THAT YOU NEED TIME FOR PEOPLE TO ADJUST THE BILATERAL CONTRACTS BECAUSE OF THE, YOU KNOW, HIGHER EXPOSURE THIS CREATES IN THOSE 30 HOURS.
BUT, UM, BUT IT SEEMS LIKE THERE'S VERY LITTLE SYSTEM CHANGE AND STUFF, EXCEPT IF YOU'RE DOING THE EX POST, EVEN THE EX POST, YOU KNOW, ADJUSTING THE YDC, THAT'S ALSO, WE HAVE THE RIGHT REPRICING, UH, MECHANISM ALREADY IN PLACE.
UM, SO WE, WE, WE SAW THIS AS AN ELEGANT WAY OF, UH, SORT OF IMPLEMENTING PCM AND YOU CAN, YOU CAN SORT OF, UM, STAGE IT IN WHERE, YOU KNOW, YOUR TARGET IS MUCH LOWER CLOSER TO WHAT MARKET PCM IS.
SO IF YOU GUARANTEE LIKE 70% OF NET CONE, MAYBE THE PC, UH, THE ADDRESS ARE ZERO FOR THAT YEAR, BECAUSE THE MARKET IS ALREADY AT 70% OF NET CONE, BUT YOU CAN RAMP THAT UP TO 95% OVER THREE YEARS SO THAT THE MARKET CAN, THE BILATERAL CONTRACTING CAN ADJUST ACCORDINGLY.
UM, DO YOU HAVE PLANS TO MAYBE FILE THAT AT THE COMMISSION IN, IN THE, IN THE DOCKET? I, I CAN'T REMEMBER THE NUMBER NOW.
UH, UH, CUZ UH, I, I, I DO THINK THAT NEEDS TO, THAT THERE, THERE'S SOMETHING BROADER THAN BRIDGE IN THE PROPOSAL AND THE COMMISSION IS THE ONLY PLACE THAT DECISION CAN BE MADE AT AT THIS POINT.
SO, UH, UH, I, I THINK WE HAVE TO COMMUNICATE THAT SOMEHOW TO, TO THE DECISION MAKERS.
AND YOU KNOW, THE REASON WE THOUGHT THIS WAS AN ALTERNATIVE BECAUSE, UM, YOU KNOW, ERCOT WAS PROPOSING A PCM BRIDGING, SO WE THOUGHT THIS WAS A, UH, I MEAN, IF YOU WANTED, YOU COULD IMPLEMENT THIS TOMORROW, YOU KNOW, IT'S ALREADY THERE.
AND SO AS AN ALTERNATIVE TO THAT, WE THOUGHT THIS WAS AN EASIER WAY AND LESS DISRUPTIVE TO THE MARKET.
BUT, AND, AND I, I WANNA MAKE SURE YOU MADE THIS POINT, BUT I WANNA MAKE SURE I UNDERSTOOD IT.
UM, YOU WOULD STILL THOUGH IT SOUNDS LIKE, UH, HAVE RECOGNIZED THAT THERE'S A CONTRACTUAL ISSUE THAT WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO BE COVERED IN YOUR PROPOSAL AS WELL AS THE PCM ONE, RIGHT? YES.
OKAY, BECAUSE THAT, THAT, I THINK THAT'S A BIG HURDLE FROM ERCOT STANDPOINT.
UH, I THINK THE LOADER ENTITIES HAVE, HAVE MADE A CREDIBLE ARGUMENT MM-HMM.
YEAH, NO, WE, WE RECOGNIZE THAT THAT, YOU KNOW, SO THIS, EVEN GENERATORS THAT ARE SELLING BILATERALS, YOU KNOW, THERE'S AN INCREASED RISK OF OUTAGES DURING THOSE 30 HOURS BECAUSE NOW YOU'RE FACING, SO SOME TRANSITION PERIOD TO ADJUST THAT.
THAT'S WHY WE SUGGEST, YOU KNOW, STARTING WITH A LOWER GUARANTEE THAT'S CLOSER TO WHERE THE MARKET WOULD CLEAR ANYWAY, SO THAT THE, THAT ALREADY SEE ADJUSTMENT WOULD BE VERY MINIMAL AND THEN RAMP PICK IT IN.
UM, THAT'S, THOSE ARE ALL THE QUESTIONS I HAVE, BUT SOMEBODY ELSE MIGHT HAVE SOME,
[00:55:03]
SO I WANTED TO, UH, ADD A LITTLE BIT TO WHAT SHAMS WAS SAYING.UH, I, AND UM, BASED ON WHAT KENAN HAD HAD SAID, I THINK IT IS, UH, IT IS NOT A BRIDGE SOLUTION IF YOU LOOK IT AS AN ALTERNATIVE FOR PCM.
BUT IF YOU LOOK IT AS WHAT IS THE OBJECTIVE OF THE BRIDGE SOLUTION AND IF THE OBJECTIVE OF BRIDGE SOLUTION IS TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS CONE MET IN, UH, THE EVERY YEAR, THEN THEN A WAY TO MODIFY THE O RDC WOULD BE A MUCH BETTER WAY TO ACCOMPLISH IT THAN DOING IT THROUGH PCM.
AND, UH, I THINK THERE ARE BE A SLIGHTLY, UH, MODIFIED VERSION TOWARD, UH, SHAMS WAS SAYING THAT CAN BE DONE.
UM, I WOULD SUGGEST IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO ENSURE THAT THERE IS CORN IN THE MARKET, THEN
THAT WAY IT ALIGNS WITH THE INTERVALS THAT PCM IS HAPPENING AND MAKE THAT FLOOR TO THE LEVEL WHERE IT WILL ACCOMPLISH THE NET REVENUE TO BE EQUAL TO THE CONE AND DO IT AT THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR SO THAT THERE IS NO ADJUSTMENT EVERY TIME AND THERE IS NO SEDIMENT SYSTEM OR ANY OTHER SYSTEM THAT NEEDS TO BE CHANGED.
AND YOU GET THE NET CONE OR EXPECTED NET CONE EACH YEAR AND YOU ARE TARGETING THE SAME SIMILAR INTERVALS AS PCM.
UH, NOW THERE COULD BE CONCERN THAT IF YOU MAKE THAT ADJUSTMENT IN THE BEGINNING OF THE YEAR, THEN THERE COULD BE OVERPAYING.
SO WHAT YOU CAN DO IS TO HAVE, UM, A TRIGGER BASED ON PCM TO SAY IF, UH, NOT PCM P AND M TO SAY IF PEAK NET MARGIN CROSSES CONE, THEN THE O RDC CAN REVERT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL VALUE.
SO THAT WAY YOU DON'T AFFECT ANY OF THE EXISTING CONTRACTS, YOU DON'T AFFECT ANY OF THE EXISTING SEDIMENT SYSTEM AND YOU USE THE EXISTING MECHANISM TO ACHIEVE THE OBJECTIVE OF MEETING CON EVERY YEAR.
AGAIN, THAT IS ONLY IF THAT IS THE OBJECTIVE.
IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO ENSURE THAT YOU HAVE REVENUE EQUIVALENT TO THE RESERVES, UH, MEANS TO AVOID THE RUGS AND INCENTIVIZE SELF-COMMITMENT, THEN THE OPTION THREE AS A LAID OUT WORKS AS WELL.
NO, I THINK WE, THAT'S A REALLY GOOD SOLUTION AND WE LIKE EVERYTHING THAT'S ENTI IN ENTI IS ALWAYS PREFERRED TO EXPOSE ADJUSTMENT.
SO IF THAT WE CAN DO THAT X ANDI, I THINK THAT'D BE GREAT.
WHO, WHO'S IN THE UM, I MEAN I, I THINK WE NEED TO POSSIBLY DOCUMENT THIS CUZ IT'S NOT, UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THAT'S IN YOUR COMMENTS.
SO, AND I GUESS I, YEAH, I HAD A QUESTION AND I, I THINK I WAS NEXT IN THE QUEUE.
THE, AND I GUESS REMI UNDERSTOOD IN THE WAY YOU WERE DESCRIBING IT, SORT OF SEEING SOME, SOUNDS LIKE THERE'S SOME SIMILARITIES IN TERMS OF WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT VERSUS WHAT, UH, SHAMS HAD UH, PROPOSED IN, IN THE COMMENTS THAT WE HAVE PULLED UP.
I GUESS I WAS SEEING THEM A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT IN THE SENSE OF HOW I WAS TAKING YOUR COMMENTS WOULD BE IN ADVANCE OF THE YEAR WE WOULD DO SORT OF A O RDC WOULD BE BEING ADJUSTED.
BUT IT'D BE FAIRLY STATIC ONCE IT GETS SET FOR THE YEAR UNTIL WE MEET SOME THRESHOLD OF YES.
OF CONE OR, OR BASED ON PEAK NET MARGIN CALCULATION.
SO SHAMS ONE WAS CHANGING IT, UH, ON A DAY DAY HEAD BASIS.
UH, I THINK THAT WOULD CREATE A LITTLE BIT MORE UNCERTAINTY FOR THE MARKET AND IT WOULD BE MORE WORK FOR ERCO.
SO DOING IT AT THE UM, YEAR AHEAD.
UH, SO SHAMS ALSO HAS THAT YEAR AHEAD STUDY ALONG WITH THAT YOU CAN DO THAT ADJUSTMENT.
THAT'S THE ONLY DIFFERENCE, RIGHT? AND IF YOU DO THAT, THEN UM, YOU CAN GIVE MORE CERTAINTY TO THE MARKET AND LESS WORK, BUT ALSO THEN, UM, REVERT IT BACK IF THE PNM HAS CROSSED THE CONE REVERTED BACK TO THE ORIGINAL O RDC.
NOW THERE COULD BE SITUATIONS WHERE MAYBE SOME YEARS YOU ARE
[01:00:01]
EXPECTED CALCULATED ENERGY AND ANCILLARY SERVICE REVENUE MAY NOT PLAY OUT AND SO YOU MIGHT HAVE TO ADJUST IT THE NEXT YEAR, SOME MINOR ADJUSTMENT, UH, AND THAT YOU CAN DO IT MAYBE INSTEAD OF DOING IT CORN DO IT AT 1 25 PERCENTAGE OF CORN OR 75 PERCENTAGE OF CORN OR WHATEVER.THAT COULD BE A A DECISION, RIGHT? ALL OF THAT ONLY IF YOU WANT TO MEET KO AND PROBABLY YOU ARE ALREADY MEETING WITH THE ENERGY AND ANCILLARY SERVICE.
SO I GUESS THE, THAT OTHER DISTINCTION YOU WERE DESCRIBING, IF THERE BE AN ADJUSTMENT FOR THE NEXT YEAR AS THINGS MATERIALIZED OR DID NOT MATERIALIZE IN THE WAY TO DESCRIBE IT, THERE WOULD NOT NECESSARILY BE A TRUE UP.
AND I THINK THAT'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DISTINCTION AS WELL.
YEAH, CAN CAN I, I WAS GONNA ASK CHMS A COUPLE MORE QUESTIONS.
DID YOU HAVE SOMETHING BEFORE I JUMP INTO THAT THOUGH? I WAS, I WAS GONNA ASK RESUME SOMETHING, BUT I'M I'M HAPPY TO LET YOU HAVE THE MIC UNTIL YEAH, SO IF I CAN GO DOWN A LITTLE BIT CHMS WHAT I, WELL YOU KNOW, I, YOU HAD MENTIONED A COUPLE TIMES SORT OF HOPING TO MINIMIZE SOME OF, YOU KNOW, CHANGES AND I'M SORRY, I'M TRYING TO ACTUALLY GO DOWN TO, I THINK THIS IS SORT OF WHERE YOU HAD, I'M SORRY, LEMME MAKE SURE I'M FINDING IT HERE.
SO I, I THINK THIS IS SORT OF THE SECTION THAT KIND OF DESCRIBED THE VARIOUS STEPS.
UH, YOU KNOW, YOU HAD SHARED VERY BRIEFLY AT THE LAST MEETING, I THINK YOU HAD PRIMARILY FOCUSED AT THE LAST MEETING MORE ON THIS KIND OF AN AFTER THE FACT TRUE UP IN THE WAY YOU'VE LAID IT OUT AND INTENDING TO NOT BE EX ENTIRELY EX POST THAT YOU'RE TRYING TO CAPTURE SOME IN ADVANCE.
I GUESS THE, WHERE WE WERE GETTING A LITTLE THINKING THERE WOULD BE SOME MORE LIKELIHOOD OF SYSTEM CHANGES I THINK IS IN TERMS OF, I THINK YOU HAD SORT OF DISTINGUISHED BETWEEN THIS PERFORMANCE CREDIT PRICE, WHICH WAS SORT OF AN ADDER ON CERTAIN DAYS MM-HMM.
I WAS WONDERING IF YOU COULD TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UM, PRIMARILY I THINK IT WAS SORT OF PARAGRAPHS FOUR AND FIVE WHERE I THINK YOU HAD A LOT OF THE, THE MEAT OF THE PROPOSAL, BUT I WAS STILL A LITTLE NOT QUITE UNDERSTANDING THE SPECIFICS AND THINKING ABOUT IMPLEMENTATION.
SO THE, WHAT I CALL PCP, THE PERFORMANCE CREDIT, UM, PRICE OR THE PREMIUM THAT YOU'D ADD ONTO THE RDC.
SO YOU DO THE STUDY YEAR AHEAD TO SEE, OKAY, WHAT, WHAT'S THE GAP BETWEEN OUR TARGET A P AND M VERSUS WHAT THE EXPECTATION IS FOR NEXT YEAR.
AND THEN YOU WOULD SORT OF, UM, UM, ESTIMATE THIS PCP ADJUSTMENT FOR THOSE 30 HOURS IN THE YEAR.
AND THEN IN THE DAY AHEAD YOU WOULD SORT OF FIGURE OUT, OKAY, THESE HOURS NEXT DAY HAPPENED TO BE, UM, THE HIGHEST RISK HOURS OR YOU, UM, FORECAST THOSE WITH THE HIGHEST RISK HOURS.
THEN ESSENTIALLY THE, UM, THE O RDC WOULD BE INCREASED BY THAT PCP AMOUNT.
SO YOU WOULD, BUT YOU WOULD POST BOTH THE UNALTERED S P P AS WELL AS THE, UM, AND O RDC AS WELL AS THE PCP AMOUNT THAT'S BEING ADDED ON TOP.
YOU'D POST THAT, BUT ALL THE SETTLEMENT, EVERYTHING WOULD BE DONE ON THE NEW RDC, WHICH IS THE O RDC PLUS THE PCP.
SO IT'S JUST ONE SETTLEMENT, UM, FOR THE MARKET.
THE OTHER ONE IS JUST INFORMATIONAL.
AND I WAS THINKING THAT IF ICE WANTED TO KEEP SETTLING JUST ON THE UNALTERED, UH, SPP, THEY COULD CONTINUE DOING THAT BECAUSE THE PCP AND AN EXPOSED ADJUSTMENT, UH, WOULD CHANGE.
SO THAT MIGHT BE A PRICE CORRECTION MORE DIFFICULT FOR SOMETHING LIKE ICE TO HANDLE.
SO THAT'S WHY I SORT OF SAY THAT.
BUT IF YOU'RE DOING EVERYTHING X ANDANTE AS OPTION TWO OR AS RASHMI SAYING, THEN YOU DON'T HAVE THAT ISSUE OF, YEAH.
AND WERE YOU THINKING THAT THE SETTLEMENT WILL ONLY BE DONE FOR THE THERMAL RESOURCES? NO.
IT IS PRICE ADJUSTMENT FOR S PPP.
SO, SO THEN IT IS NO DIFFERENT FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, RIGHT? YEAH.
IT'S JUST LIKE PCM DESIGN AND, AND, AND I THINK, UH, DOING THE ADJUSTMENT ONLY FOR THAT 3,500 OR 4,000 WOULD, UH, MAKE IT MORE ALIGNED WITH THE PCM INTERVALS OR EXPECTED BCM INTERVALS.
DOES THAT ANSWER YOUR QUESTION, DAVE, OR WHAT? I, I, I THINK SO.
I, OH, I'LL, I THINK OTHER FOLKS ARE GONNA CHIME IN THE QUEUE, BUT I GUESS JUST ON ITS FACE, I, I CAN, I HAVE A, I GUESS MORE OF A CLEAR VISION I THINK IS SORT OF REMUS DESIGN ABOUT ANY POTENTIAL.
AND IN FACT, I, I'M NOT SURE THAT WOULD HAVE ANY IMPACT ON SYSTEMS. THERE'D BE SOME PROCESS CHANGES IN TERMS OF HOW WE MAYBE DO SOME UPDATES.
IT'S STILL, I'M STILL HAVING TO THINK THROUGH HOW SORT OF A TIMEFRAME WE COULD THINK ABOUT A CHANGE LIKE THAT IN.
SO, BUT I'LL, I'LL, I'LL TURN OVER THE MIC TO, TO OTHER FOLKS IN THEIR QUESTIONS.
UM, KAAN, DID YOU WANNA FINISH ASKING RASHMI REQUEST ME BEFORE WE MOVE ON? YEAH.
I, I THINK THE OUTSTANDING THING FOR ME IS TRYING TO THINK THROUGH THIS REVENUE STREAM WITH A CUTOFF
[01:05:01]
AT SOME, SOMETHING TO DO WITH CONE AND HOW THAT PLAYS OUT AS FAR AS THE, ALL THE RESOURCES IN THE SYSTEM.SO IF THAT CUTOFF HAPPENED, UM, LET'S SAY IN JUNE, UM, IN JULY AND AUGUST IS, UH, IS, ARE, ARE WE MISSING OUT ON SOMETHING? ARE THE INCENTIVES STILL ALIGNED, UH, GOING INTO THE REST OF THE YEAR WHEN MORE OR LESS I STOP USING THIS, THIS O R D C CURVE? YEAH.
SO IF YOU REVERT BACK TO THE ORIGINAL O R D C AT THAT POINT, THEN YOU ARE NOW NO WORSE OFF THAN THE ORIGINAL O R D C, RIGHT? SO THE INCENTIVES WILL STILL BE THERE, BUT, UH, AS YOU SAID, PCM WOULD BE AFTER THE FACT.
SO PEOPLE WILL HAVE TO GUESS AND THEY WILL HAVE TO BE AVAILABLE ALL THE TIME, I GUESS.
AND SO, UH, THAT TYPE OF RESPONSE WON'T BE THERE, BUT YOU ACHIEVE THE OBJECTIVE OF, UH, REVENUE STABILITY FOR THE, UH, RIGHT SET OF RESOURCES BY DOING THIS.
SO YOU GET THE REVENUE STABILITY, AND YOU ARE NOT ANYWHERE WORSE OFF THAN THE CURRENT EXISTING ORDC AFTER YOU HAVE MET THE REVENUE.
SO, SO, BUT I MEAN, SOMETIMES, UH, WHAT'S THE BEST WAY TO SAY THIS? SOMETIMES, UH, CONDITIONS AND WEATHER ARE SUCH THAT, UH, THE BACK END OF THE YEAR MIGHT HAVE MORE NEED FOR, UH, RESOURCES AND AND PERFORMANCE THAN THE FRONT END DOES THAT, THAT CONTINUUM DOESN'T HAPPEN IN, IN, IN THIS MODEL? YEAH.
SO I, I WOULD SAY THAT IF YOU CHANGE O RDC FULL AND SHIFTED ALL THROUGH LIKE THE 7, 8, 9, 10, ALL THOSE TAIL EVENTS, THEN THAT IS TRUE.
YOU ARE JUST PUTTING MONEY IN THE BEGINNING WHERE YOU MAY NOT NEED IT, BUT PUTTING IT AT 3,500 IS YOU ARE PAYING FOR THE TIMES WHEN YOU REALLY NEED IT.
AND THERE MAY BE YEARS WHERE YOU NEED IT IN THE BEGINNING AND IN THE END, AND MAYBE WITH THIS CONE CUTOFF, YOU MAY NOT, UH, BE ABLE TO SEND US SIGNALS IN THE AFTER LATER HALF.
BUT THAT IS NO DIFFERENT THAN WHAT WE ARE DOING RIGHT NOW WITH THE P AND M THRESHOLD.
AND IDEALLY, YOU SHOULD NOT HAVE A P AND M THRESHOLD IN THE, IN AN ENERGY MARKET WHERE YOU SHOULD BE SENDING, RIGHT? SO YOU, WHAT IF YOU, IF YOU WANT, YOU COULD DO IS NOT HAVE THAT CUTOFF AND SAY THAT IT GOES FOR ALL THE REST OF THE YEAR AND THE NEXT YEAR YOU DON'T ADJUST IT.
IT, IT'S, IT, IT'S, IT'S ALL PARAMETERS YOU CAN CHANGE, RIGHT? IT DEPENDS ON WHAT IS YOUR OBJECTIVE.
CAN I ASK BOB, BOB WHITMEYER? YEAH.
BOB, BOB WHITMER SPEAKING ON BEHALF OF BROADREACH POWER, ONE OF THE THINGS WE INCLUDED IN OUR COMMENTS WERE, YOU KNOW, ADJUSTMENTS TO THE LCAP TRIGGER.
UM, SUCH SO GOING DOWN, GOING DOWN RESUME SAYING WE WOULD TRIGGER THE LCAP AT SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, JUST NORTH OF CONE.
UM, AND THAT MIGHT SOLVE PART OF THIS PROBLEM.
I DO LIKE RESUME'S IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, CORRECTING IT OVER THE NEXT YEAR.
BUT, BUT THERE'S A, THERE'S AT LEAST A TRIGGER MECHANISM THAT ALREADY EXISTS THAT WOULD AT LEAST DAMPEN DOWN IF WE, YOU KNOW, OVERCOMPENSATED FOR O RDC.
HI, JOHN HUBBARD WITH T I E C.
UM, I THINK, I MEAN, WITH THIS CONVERSATION, I THINK SOME CLARITY ABOUT ERCOT GOAL, WHICH I KNOW WE TOUCHED ON A LITTLE BIT, BUT, UH, IT SEEMS LIKE THIS CONVERSATION IS PREMISED ON THAT THE MARKET MUST MEET CONE EVERY YEAR.
AND I THINK THAT'S NOT EXPLICIT IN ERCOT GOAL.
ERCOT GOAL IS THAT WE MUST INCENTIVIZE RESOURCES TO STAY OR INCENTIVIZE NEW RESOURCES TO COME.
UM, AND SO I THINK BASING IT OFF CONE AND MAKING SURE THE MARKET HITS CONE EACH YEAR SEEMS TO BE ASSUMING THAT THE MARKET'S NOT CURRENTLY MEETING RELIABILITY STANDARD.
UH, AND THAT ERCOT NEEDS THOSE NEW RESOURCES RIGHT NOW.
AND I DON'T KNOW IF, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S THE COMMISSION'S DIRECTION BASED OFF OF AT LEAST THE MEETINGS I'VE BEEN WATCHING.
SO, UH, LET, I JUST WANNA, SO WOULD YOU SUPPORT ELIMINATING ANY CONE BASED TRIGGER TO, TO, YOU KNOW, CUT OFF, UH,
[01:10:01]
ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO THE MARKET? IS IS, IS THAT WHERE YOU'RE GOING WITH, WITH THAT ARGUMENT OR ARE YOU JUST SAYING THE GOAL ISN'T CONE YEAR ON YEAR? I, THE GOAL ISN'T CONE YEAR ON YEAR, AND SO THE O R D C CURVE SHOULDN'T BE SHIFTED WITH THE IDEA OF CREATING A NET CONE REVENUE FOR GENERATORS.WELL, IF IT'S SHIFTED, IT SHOULD BE DONE.
SO IN A WAY THAT IS BASED ON THE MARKET.
SO IF THAT WERE THE CASE, WHY DID THE COMMISSION PICK PCM? I THINK THEY'RE LOOKING AT 2026 WITH THAT DECISION.
THEY HAVEN'T SET WHAT THE RELIABILITY STANDARD IS.
THERE'S A LOT OF STEPS IN THE INTERIM THAT YOU HAVE TO GO TO BEFORE SAYING THAT THE MARKET MUST MEET CONE YEAR AFTER YEAR.
I FEEL LIKE I MAY NOT HAVE ANSWERED ONE OF YOUR QUESTIONS, DID I, WAS YOURS MAINLY A THAT, THAT YOU DON'T SEE ANYTHING THAT IS REQUIRES CONE YEAR ON YEAR? OR WAS THERE, UH, SOMETHING THAT YOU WERE LOOKING FOR FROM ME? UH, I, I THINK I'M CURIOUS HOW IT WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD WITH THE GOAL.
SO, AND, AND THE CONVERSATION THAT'S BEEN HAD, I, I GUESS WHEN, WHEN I LOOKED AT THIS, UM, I TOOK THE COMMISSION VOTE ON PCM AS AN INDICATIVE STATE THAT THEY, THAT THEY WANTED TO ACHIEVE.
AND THE ISSUE FOR THEM WAS NOT SO MUCH THAT, UH, THAT THEY WANTED TO WAIT THREE YEARS FOR THAT, BUT THAT THEY, UH, WOULD LIKE FOR, FOR A BRIDGE TO FIGURE OUT WAYS TO AT LEAST GET THE MARKET SOMEWHERE SIMILAR TO WHERE THEY WANT IT TO BE IN 2026.
SO FROM THAT PERSPECTIVE, UH, WHEN WE RECOMMEND A BRIDGE TO THE BOARD, I THINK THERE IS A GOAL OF TRYING TO SMOOTH OUT SOME OF THE, UH, ENERGY ONLY MARKET, UH, VOLATILITY AROUND, UH, NET CONE AND, AND WITH PCM.
SO THAT, THAT WOULD BE PART OF THE WAY WE WERE LOOKING AT THE BRIDGE SOLUTIONS.
SO I THINK, I THINK THAT WAS THE ELEMENT I MISSED IN ANSWERING YOUR QUESTION.
AND SO MY QUESTION REALLY IS, IS REALLY ABOUT, I WOULD LIKE, HAS THERE BEEN ANY PUBLISHED COMPARISON BETWEEN WHAT IS THE EFFECT ON THIS PROPOSED BRIDGING SOLUTION OR THE EVENTUAL SOLUTION ON A TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL BILL COMPARED TO OTHER MECHANISM THAT EXISTS IN OTHER STATES AND OTHER IS O SO ARE, ARE YOU ASKING HAVE WE COMPARED THIS TO, UH, CAPACITY MARKET OR LIKE A CALIFORNIA, LIKE I DON'T BASKET OF CAPACITY MARKETS, CORRECT.
YOU KNOW, THERE, THERE, THERE ARE OTHER ISOS IN THE COUNTRY THAT HAS SIMILAR MECHANISMS TO OTHER, THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM.
HAVE THERE BEEN ANY SORT OF COMPARISON BETWEEN THESE AND THE EFFECT ON THE TYPICAL RESIDENTIAL BILL? SO THE ONLY COMPARISON ON THAT FRONT THAT I'M AWARE OF IS IN THE E THREE REPORT WHERE I THINK THEY KIND OF MODEL THE OUTCOMES OF NONE OF THE BRIDGE SOLUTIONS, BUT THE PCM BACKSTOP RESERVE, UH, AND THE, THEY HAVE A CENTRALIZED CAPACITY MARKET THAT THEY CALL, WHAT WAS IT CALLED? E IT'S RM? YES.
THAT'S THE ONLY COMPARISON I'M AWARE OF.
I'M SORRY, WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS REPORT? IT'S THE, UH, E THREE REPORT FILED IN THE DOCKET WHERE THE COMMISSION MADE THE DECISION.
DO, DOES ANYBODY KNOW WHAT THAT DOCKET NUMBER IS? FIVE.
[01:15:01]
5 2 3 73 5 3 2 73.UM, MAYBE IT'S NOT, UH, WORTH IT, BUT I, I GUESS ON THESE, UM, MODIFYING THE RDC TO BE LIKE A PCM IN THE INTERIM, I, IS THERE A RELIABILITY STANDARD THAT IS ASSUMED AND TO MOVE FORWARD? CUZ IT ISN'T THAT LIKE CENTRAL TO THE WHOLE PCM I WAS JUST ASKING SHAMS AND REMI, I JUST, BECAUSE IT'S LIKE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE GONNA CHANGE ODC AND, UM, BASED ON WHAT THE PCM MIGHT HAVE DONE OVER CERTAIN HOURS AND THEN STOPPED DOING IT AT SOME POINT.
BUT THEN WHEN I LOOK AT PCM, THERE'S THE, THE, THE DEMAND CURVE THAT HAS EMBEDDED A RELIABILITY STANDARD IS ALL CENTRAL TO THE WHOLE THING.
IF WE, IN OUR COMMENTS, WE DO PROPOSE A RELIABILITY STANDARD AND YOU KNOW HOW TO ADJUST THE NET CONE TARGET BASED ON THAT, WHETHER YOU'RE MEETING THAT RELIABILITY STANDARD OR NOT.
SO, UM, SO THERE'S SOME, OKAY, I HAVEN'T READ ALL THESE, BUT, SO I SEE THAT'S AN E U E TYPE STANDARD.
SO THIS WOULD BE SOME SORT OF INTERIM, UM, WHILE YOU'RE ON THE BRIDGE STANDARD.
FOR, NO, I MEAN THIS COULD BE I GOT IT.
UNTIL IT'S, IT, SO IT'S, IT'S PIECE OF IT.
IN TERMS OF, UH, WELL MAYBE THERE'S SOME OTHER OUTSTANDING QUESTIONS ON WHAT SHAMS OR REMI SAID.
SO I THINK WE HAD SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS.
UM, HAVE WE COVERED ALL OF THOSE ON, ON SOME OF THE OTHER COMMENTS? I THINK WE HAVE, I GUESS THERE'S, WE OBVIOUSLY FOCUSED PRIMARILY, UH, ON, UH, HUNT'S.
LOOK AT THE, THIS DIFFERENT APPROACH TO I GUESS A, AN RDC BASED PCM UH, APPROACH IS MAYBE THE BEST WAY TO DESCRIBE IT.
I KNOW SHAMS YOU HAD SOME OTHER COMMENTS.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE YOU WANTED TO, I KNOW WE HAVE A NUMBER OF COMMENTS THAT WE WANNA TACKLE TODAY, BUT IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU WANTED TO EXPLICITLY CALL OUT FOR THE, THE GROUP? UH, NO, I THINK WE'VE COVERED MOST OF WHAT WE, UH, YOU KNOW, PEOPLE HAVE QUESTIONS AND STUFF, THEY CAN ALWAYS EMAIL ME OR CALL ME.
BUT YEAH, BASICALLY THIS IS IMPLEMENTING PCM USING OUR EXISTING MARKET MECHANISMS. IT SORT OF MINIMIZES THE IMPACT ON EXISTING BILATERAL CONTRACTING, YOU KNOW, SO IF, IF WE IMPLEMENTED PCM AS A NEW PRODUCT, UM, AND IT'S NOT COVERED UNDER THE CURRENT BILATERALS, IT'S NOT CLEAR IF I'M A LOAD AND I'VE CONTRACTED FOR CAPACITY, WHETHER I'D GET THOSE PCMS OR NOT.
YOU KNOW, IT, IT OPENS UP THE WHOLE CONTRACTING ISSUES.
WHEREAS THIS IS ALMOST LIKE SOME ARTIFICIAL PRICE BIKES THAT ARE PUT INTO THE MARKET AND, UM, AND SHOULD BE COVERED BY THE EXISTING CONTRACTING.
SO WE THINK IT'S, IT'S, UH, EASIER TO IMPLEMENT AS WELL AS LESS DISRUPTIVE TO THE ENERGY ONLY MARKET.
AND I THINK WE HAVE ONE MORE PERSON IN THE QUEUE THEN PAMELA, AND THEN WE'LL MOVE TO THE NEXT STEP.
RANDY, DO YOU WANT TO SAY YOUR QUESTIONS OR YOU WANT ME TO READ 'EM FOR YOU? THEY'RE IN THE, THEY'RE IN THE CHAT ANYWAY.
HE JUST SAYS, IF YOU MODIFY O ORDC TO MIMIC PCM, THEN Y IS PCM EVEN NEEDED.
I, I'M, I'M GOING TO, I'M GONNA TAKE A PASS ON, ON THAT
UM, I, I, I DO THINK THERE IS SOME FORMAL FORWARD CONTRACTING IN THE PCM ENVISIONED BY THE COMMISSION.
THERE IS A FORMAL REQUIREMENT THAT LSCS RETIRE THESE THINGS.
UM, AND I THINK SOME OF THOSE THINGS MIGHT NOT AS CLEARLY HAPPEN.
AND THEN THE LAST ONE, I THINK RE POINTED OUT, WHICH IS THE UNCERTAINTY OF WHICH 30 HOURS EXIST CREATES A COMMITMENT, UH, PRESSURE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR VERSUS WHAT MIGHT HAPPEN IF YOU'VE EXHAUSTED THAT.
BUT I'M NOT GONNA ANSWER THE VERY, UH, THE, THE OTHER ONE, HE HAD ANOTHER ONE AS WELL.
UM, HE SAYS, SHOULDN'T A BRIDGING MECHANISM FOCUS ON HOLDING OLDER UNITS IN THE MARKET? I, SO I, I THINK OUR GOAL IS WITH ADDITIONAL REVENUE TO, UH, SINCE THAT WOULD GO TO
[01:20:01]
ALL THE RESOURCES IN THE MARKET, UH, HOPEFULLY, UH, HOLD SOME UNITS IN THE MARKET, UM, IF NEED BE.I THINK THIS WAS THE OBSERVATION THAT, UH, BILL MADE EARLIER.
WE WOULD HAVE THAT R M R FOR CAPACITY BACKSTOP AS WELL, IF I COULD RESPOND TO THE FIRST.
AND THEN THERE'S SOMEBODY ELSE.
YEAH, I MEAN, FROM HE'S POINT OF VIEW, I THINK THIS IS, UH, THE SOLUTION OF RDC IS ACTUALLY PREFERABLE TO PCM BECAUSE IF YOU, IF YOU REALLY LOOK AT THE PCM DEMAND CURVE OF HOW PC PRICES ARE SET, IT'S HIGHLY UNCERTAIN.
EVEN WHEN YOUR RELIABILITY STANDARD ISN'T BEING MET, UH, THOSE PC PRICES COULD BE CLOSE TO ZERO DEPENDING ON WHERE YOU ARE ON THAT CURVE.
SO THIS GIVES YOU EXACT CERTAINTY AND THE ASPECT THAT CANAN WAS TALKING ABOUT, I MEAN, THAT PCM ACHIEVES THAT BECAUSE IT'S EXPOSED AND THIS, IF YOU KEEP THAT EXPOSED, THEN YOU CAN STILL ACHIEVE THAT, UH, SAME OBJECTIVE.
SO FROM HEN'S PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS A, A, A BETTER WAY OF, UM, YOU KNOW, IMPLEMENTING PCM WITHOUT THE MARKET POWER ISSUES AND ALL THAT, BECAUSE ALL THAT IS ALREADY BUILT INTO, UH, THE MARKET TODAY.
JUST A QUICK, UH, UH, QUESTION ON THE RTC, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ADDRESSING THE RELIABILITY MAKE MORE SENSE TO, TO MODIFY ALLY RATHER THAN JUST ALL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR? CAUSE THE, THE, SOME OF THE EMAILS THAT WE HAD IN THE PAST ARE MORE SEASONAL IN NATURE RATHER THAN ALL THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
THAT SOUNDS LIKE, UH, IS THAT A QUESTION FOR ERCOT OR, AND I THINK THIS IS FOR SHAS AND, UH, TIM REMI WHO'S PROPOSING THE MODIFIED OUR DISEASE SOLUTION.
YEAH, A WRITEUP DEFINITELY TALKS ABOUT A SEASONAL, UM, UH, YOU KNOW, ALTERNATIVE.
SO WE DEFINITELY SEE THE BENEFIT OF SEASONAL, BUT, UM, YOU KNOW, AT THIS STAGE WE LEFT BOTH OPTIONS OPEN, WHETHER ANNUAL OR SEASONAL.
DAVE, IS THIS A GOOD TIME THEN TO MOVE TO BLAKE'S PRESENTATION? UH, WE, WE CAN CERTAINLY DO THAT NOW.
OR THE OTHER OPTION IS THAT, I KNOW, I GUESS ONE OF THE OTHER THINGS THAT CAME UP AND, AND CARRIE HAD MENTIONED IT, AND I KNOW A NUMBER OF FOLKS MENTIONED IT WAS THE IDEA OF, UM, DOING SOME MODIFICATION TO, TO ANSLEY SERVICES, SPECIFICALLY THINKING ABOUT THE UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT OR DRRS PRODUCT, WHICH HAD SOME SIMILARITIES.
SO THE OTHER OPTION UND WE WANT SOMEONE TO KIND OF SPEAK TO, TO THAT, BEFORE WE GET INTO THE UPDATED PRESENTATION MATERIAL, I, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE THE, TAKE THOSE COMMENTS OR PERSPECTIVE.
SO I GUESS IF YOU WOULDN'T MIND, LET, LET, LET'S MAYBE ASK SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THAT.
I, I THINK CARE, I'M SORRY, REMI, YOU PROBABLY, I THINK, HAD WALKED THROUGH THAT IN THE MOST DETAIL THOUGH.
I KNOW A NUMBER OF PEOPLE MENTIONED IT, BUT WOULD, WOULD YOU BE UP FOR, FOR WALKING THROUGH THAT? UH, SURE.
SO THE WAY I WAS, UH, SAYING IS THAT IF THE OBJECTIVE IS TO BUY MORE ANCILLARY SERVICE, AND WE ARE LOOKING AT NONS SPIN, UH, BECAUSE NONS SPIN IS CURRENTLY SO ILLIQUID JUST INCREASING THE NONS SPIN AMOUNT COULD END UP BEING, UM, TRIGGERING THE INSUFFICIENCY OF ANCILLARY SERVICE.
SO BECAUSE THE OBJECTIVE IS TO HAVE MORE BUFFER, TO MEET LONGER DURATION ISSUES, WE COULD INCREASE NONS SPEND, BUT HAVE THOSE INCREASE BE QUALIFIED TO BE PROVIDED BY RESOURCES THAT ARE AVAILABLE IN TWO HOURS INSTEAD OF 30 MINUTES.
SO FROM AN OPERATIONAL PERSPECTIVE, YOU REQUIRE 30 MINUTE, UH, RESERVES TO, UH, RECOVER NARC REQUIRED ANCILLARY SERVICE.
SO DON'T CHANGE THAT 30 MINUTE REQUIREMENT, BUT DO THE ADDITIONAL EXTRA AMOUNT AS, UH, THE TWO HOUR REQUIREMENT.
AND THIS CAN BE DONE BY ADDING ANOTHER CONSTRAINT IN THE DAY HIT MARKET, WHERE YOU KEEP THE CURRENT CONSTRAINT TO GET THE 30 MINUTE AND THE NEW ADDITIONAL, UM, EXTRA AMOUNT COULD BE EITHER MET FROM THE 30 MINUTE OR THE TWO HOUR RESOURCES.
SO IT, THE ONLY DIFFERENCE WOULD BE ADDING AN ADDITIONAL CONSTRAINT IN THE DAY HEAD MARKET.
[01:25:01]
WOULDN'T HAVE TO CHANGE THE REPORTS, SUBMISSIONS, ANY OF THOSE.UH, YOU WOULD ONLY HAVE TO SAY WHO IS QUALIFIED TO PROVIDE THAT SERVICE.
SO ADD ANOTHER CONSTRAINT IN DAM AND, UH, EXPAND THE QUALIFICATION TO INCLUDE THE TWO HOUR RESOURCES.
AND THEN, UM, IT IS NOT THE, UH, BEST OR THE IDEAL WAY TO IMPLEMENT THE UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT BECAUSE YOU WILL BE VALUING ALL OF THOSE RESERVES TOGETHER.
YOU WILL BE VALUING 30 MINUTE AND TWO HOUR AS THE SAME, BUT THIS COULD BE A STARTING POINT TO SEND THAT MARKET SIGNAL.
AND EVENTUALLY YOU CAN SPLIT IT UP INTO TWO ANCILLARY SURVEYS WHERE THE 30 MINUTE IS VALUED, UH, LIKE A 30 MINUTE PRODUCT, AND THE TWO HOURS IS VALUED AS A TWO HOUR PRODUCT, AND YOU CAN KEEP THIS TWO HOUR PRODUCT OFFLINE.
SO YOU CAN HAVE THOSE, UH, UH, BEHIND HASSLE FROM THE ONLINE RESOURCES AND IT COULD BE DEPLOYED BY THE OPERATORS.
SO I SEE TWO CHANGES IN THE SYSTEM.
ONE IS HAVING ADDITIONAL ONE CONSTRAINT IN DAM AND THEN, UM, ALLOWING THE NEW SET OF RESOURCES TO BE QUALIFIED TO PROVIDE.
AND THEN IN THE DEPLOYMENT, UH, YOU HAVE TO, IF YOU WANT, YOU CAN SPLIT, SPLIT IT SEPARAT SEPARATELY AND HAVE A DEPLOYMENT OR COMBINE IT WITH THE OFFLINE NONS SPIN DEPLOYMENT AS WELL.
IF YOU DON'T WANT TO HAVE THAT SEPARATE, IT'S UP TO OPERATIONS WHAT THEY WANT TO DO.
SO IN THE CASE OF THE TWO HOUR UNITS, AND I'M SORRY, JUST THINKING THROUGH THE MECHANICS HERE, THE, IN THE CASE OF THE TWO HOUR UNITS, YOUR THOUGHT IS THAT IT COULD BE PROVIDED BY ONLINE OR OFFLINE RESOURCES, BUT DISTINCT FROM THE CURRENT ONLINE NONS SPEND TODAY, IT WOULD NOT HAVE THE STANDING DEPLOYMENT WHERE IT'S ALWAYS RELEASED TO, TO SCD.
THAT'S IS THAT, IS THAT FAIR HOW I STATED THAT IF YOU WANT TO RESERVE THAT CAPACITY, YOU CAN KEEP IT BEHIND HASSLE AND, AND IT IS AVAILABLE ONLY IN, UH, TWO HOURS.
SO IT'S, UH, MORE THAN LIKELY DUCK BURNERS AND STUFF LIKE THAT.
SO IT IS ALREADY BEHIND HASSLE RIGHT NOW FROM NONS SPIN BECAUSE IT IS OFFLINE NONS SPIN.
CAN YOU ONLY, CAN YOU JUST USE OFFLINE NONS SPIN TO USE THE TWO HOUR RESOURCES? UH, YOU COULD, BUT I BELIEVE A CARD WOULD WANT TO CONTINUE TO USE THE 30 MINUTE RESERVE LEVEL, RIGHT? SO YOU'LL HAVE TO ADD ANOTHER CONSTRAINT TO GET THERE.
OTHERWISE YOU MAY NOT GET THAT.
UM, NERC REQUIRED QUANTITY, NOT NECESSARILY THAT NERC REQUIRED.
A NONS SPIN IS NOT NURK REQUIRED, BUT, UM, NONS SPIN IS SUPPOSED TO BE BACKING UP RESPONSIBLE RESERVE, WHICH IS NOT REQUIRED.
SO, AND IT'S ALWAYS BETTER TO HAVE TRANCHES OF CAPACITY INSTEAD OF ONE'S WHOLE SET OF CAPACITY AVAILABLE IN DIFFERENT TIME.
DON WAS TOM, DID YOU HAVE A COMMENT? YEAH, IT SEEMS LIKE, UM, I MEAN, I HATE TO GO BACK.
UM, I WAS LIKING LISTENING TO RESUME TALK, BUT, UH, NO, THAT'S OKAY.
UM, IT SEEMS TO ME THAT WE'RE SORT OF STUCK.
I MEAN, WE'RE HAPPY TO GO BACK AND FILE SOMETHING TO THE COMMISSION AND, AND WE WILL DO THAT.
UM, BUT THE PROCESS IS SOMETHING CALLED A BRIDGE IS GOING TO THE COMMISSION, AND THE COMMISSION'S GONNA MAKE A DETERMINATION.
THAT IS SORT OF THE SAME QUESTION HE ASKED, UH, THAT STEVE REEDY ASKED YOU.
THEY'RE NOT GONNA WANT TO ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
SO IT JUST SEEMS LIKE TO ME THAT WITHOUT SOME KIND OF ENOUGH AFFIRMATIVE, THIS IS A VALID TYPICAL, THIS IS A VALID SOLUTION RATHER THAN JUST A BRIDGE, A VALID SOLUTION.
OTHER, YOU KNOW, TO, TO DO THE WHOLE PCM SEEMS LIKE TO ME THAT WE'RE SORT OF STUCK OTHERWISE.
WE'RE GONNA GO PICK A BRIDGE, WE'RE GONNA TELL THE BOARD AND THE BOARD'S GONNA SAY, YES, WE LIKE ABC BRIDGE.
AND THAT'S NOT AT ALL WHERE I THINK WHAT OUR, WHERE OUR COMMENTS ARE, NOR WHERE Y'ALL WERE SEEING THE VALUE IN THOSE COMMENTS.
AND SO I'M SORT OF SEEING A STUCKNESS, YOU DON'T HAVE TO TALK ABOUT IT HERE, YOU CAN HELP ME IF I'M NOT SEEING IT RIGHT, BUT, UH, THERE'S SOMETHING ELSE NEEDS TO BE DONE OTHER THAN, YEAH, GO FILE THIS TO COMMISSION.
I THINK, WELL, UH, I, I MEAN, I THINK THERE IS THE, THE PROBLEM AT HAND AND BOTH, UH,
[01:30:01]
UH, TO ME, REGARDLESS, UH, OF WHAT YOU WANT AFTER THE THREE YEARS, YOUR COMMENTS, UH, VALIDATE A O R D C TYPE APPROACH.WHAT I WOULD SAY BEYOND THAT IS YOU RAISE THE CASE OF, UH, O ORDC KIND OF APPROACH, MAY BE A BETTER STEADY STATE.
I THINK THERE'S A SERIES OF QUESTIONS BEYOND WHAT I'M ASKING OR HAVE TEED UP HERE FOR THE BRIDGE, UM, THAT WOULD NEED TO BE DISCUSSED.
AND, UM, SO I'M HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT THAT INTERNALLY AND, UH, BUT, BUT YOU DO HAVE KIND OF A BIGGER WINDOW TO MOVE THE NEEDLE, UH, FOR, FOR THE CASE YOU'VE MADE.
UM, OR YOU MIGHT FIND THERE'S SOMETHING, YOU KNOW, AS YOU WORK THROUGH IT THAT THERE'S SOMETHING MISSING AND YOU WANNA ADD SOMETHING ELSE ELSE TO YOUR PROPOSAL AS A LONG TERM SOLUTION.
SO I, I'M NOT, I'M NOT AS STUCK MAYBE AS, AS YOU ARE IN THAT I FEEL THE FEEDBACK THAT WE'VE GOTTEN, UM, I STILL, UM, UH, I I I STILL WORRY, I HAVEN'T ADDRESSED CARRIE'S CONCERNS, SO THAT THAT'S MY ONE, UH, DISCOMFORT IN THE WHOLE THING.
BUT, UH, IF I'M LOOKING AT WHAT STAKEHOLDERS ARE, ARE THINKING, I DON'T SEE ANYTHING IN YOUR COMMENTS OR THE ENHANCED SOLUTION THAT SAYS, AS A BRIDGE WALK AWAY FROM O R D C.
WHAT I'M, WHAT I SEE IS, LET'S STAND UP THE O R D C THING IN, IN YOUR COMMENTS.
IF I, IF I WERE TAKING THAT, RIGHT.
SO I GUESS I, I'M GONNA PUSH BACK AND SAY, I, I DON'T FEEL STUCK GOOD AS FAR AS MY ASSIGNMENT GOES.
I MIGHT FEEL DIFFERENT IF, YOU KNOW, I WAS, UH, ALL IN, IN A PLACE WHERE I'M LIKE, OH, LET'S JUST, I, I NEED TO TALK THE COMMISSION INTO SOMETHING ELSE.
I DON'T THINK THAT THAT'S MY JOB.
I THINK THE COMMISSION HAS SET UP SOMETHING.
I THINK THERE'S TIME FOR, UH, THINGS TO BE THOUGHT THROUGH, UH, FOR ALL I KNOW THE LEGISLATURE MIGHT SAY DON'T DO PCM OR SOMETHING, RIGHT? SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
SO I, I, I THINK THERE'S STILL ROOM FOR, UH, THINGS TO OTHER THINGS TO BE DISCUSSED, AND, UH, I THINK WE SHOULD PURSUE, PURSUE THAT ON THAT, THAT PATH.
WELL, I GUESS MAYBE I COULD, UH, AMEND WHAT I SAID AT FIRST SAYING ANYTHING ELSE YOU'D LIKE FOR US TO DO AND CARRY IT TO THE COMMISSION.
YOU, IF, IF WE NEED TO DO ANOTHER ROUND OF THIS OR PROVIDE MORE DETAILS AROUND THE O RDC SOLUTION, WE'RE HAPPY TO DO THAT.
THERE'S JUST SOME, THERE'S A TRAIN AND IT HAS A PATH THAT'S LAID BEFORE IT, AND I'M NOT SURE HOW WE GET THIS TO STAY ON THAT TRACK AND GET THE RIGHT PLACE.
AND IT SOUNDS LIKE YOU'RE NOT WORRIED ABOUT IT, WHICH MEANS I SHOULD STOP WORRYING ABOUT IT.
WELL, NO, I,
RELATIVE TO PROPOSING A WORKABLE BRIDGE SOLUTION, I'M NOT SURE.
WELL, AGAIN, WITH THE CAVEAT OF, I, I NEED TO THINK THROUGH SOME OF THE THINGS CARRIE RAY'S TODAY.
UM, I'M NOT SEEING A PROBLEM THERE ON, ON, ON AS FAR AS MY ASSIGNMENT GOES.
AND I'M NOT EMPOWERED TO MOVE SOME OF THE THINGS, NOR ARE WE, AND, AND I SHOULDN'T BE, BY THE WAY.
BUT, UM, SO I, I THINK WE NEED TO KEEP TALKING ABOUT THAT.
UH, AND I, I HAVE SOME, PROBABLY HAVE SOME ADDITIONAL QUESTIONS AND WE'LL, WE CAN EITHER DO SOME OTHER WORKSHOPS OR, UH, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, OR JUST KIND OF FOLLOW UP WITH SHAMS. HE'S ALREADY REACHED OUT TO ME.
SO W W I'LL, I'LL TRY AND START CHECKING OFF SOME ADDITIONAL BOXES.
WELL, AND, AND I'D LOVE TO MAKE THAT OPEN.
UH, IF THERE'S OTHER PEOPLE WHO HAVE QUESTIONS AND WE'LL SIT DOWN AND TALK ABOUT RDC AND THERE'S SOMETHING THAT BOTHERS YOU ABOUT IT, THEN SHARIA, EITHER ONE, JUST PLEASE LET US KNOW AND WE'LL, WE'RE HAPPY TO TALK ABOUT IT.
WE WOULD LOVE TO FIND, IF THERE'S A FLAW, WE'D LOVE TO FIND IT EARLIER THAN, YOU KNOW, THAN LATER, SOONER.
UM, YEAH, AND, AND, UH, SO IT SOUNDS LIKE A WORKSHOP, UH, SOME OTHER WORKSHOP MIGHT BE, UH, BETTER.
I JUST WORRY I'M GETTING AHEAD OF THE COMMISSION WITH
[01:35:01]
THAT THEN, BUT, UM, THAT'S WHERE I DON'T WANT TO BE EITHER.CAUSE THAT TRACK RUNS RIGHT ALONGSIDE US.
SO, UM, SO I'LL JUST RAISE THIS.
I I'M NOT, I HAVEN'T WORKED IT ALL THROUGH MY MIND, AND THAT'S WHY I, I HAVEN'T SET UP SOMETHING, BUT IT'S AT LEAST WORTH TALKING ABOUT IS, I MEAN, PCM ENVISIONS THIS FORMAL LSC OBLIGATION, IF I UNDERSTAND YOUR PROPOSAL RIGHT, IT RELIES ON MITIGATING RISK AS THE INCENTIVE FOR THE LSE TO PROCURE VERSUS A STANDUP OBLIGATION.
THAT TO ME IS A MATERIAL DIFFERENCE IN THAT THERE IS AN AVENUE TO NOT COVER YOUR OBLIGATION AND BE ABLE TO OFFER A LOWER RATE THAT IS NOT A FULLY RELIABLE RATE POTENTIALLY TO END USE CUSTOMERS.
SO, AND I'M NOT EVEN SAYING I'M RIGHT ABOUT THAT STATEMENT.
I, I JUST AM WRESTLING WITH THAT.
THAT'S ONE OF THE THINGS I'M WRESTLING WITH ON YOUR, ON, ON, ON THE HEN PROPOSAL, RIGHT.
AND WITH PCM ALSO, THE, ULTIMATELY THE ALLOCATION TO LOAD IS BASED ON THAT LOAD RATIO SHARE IN THOSE 30 HOURS.
SO THAT'S WHAT THIS IS DOING IS IT'S ALLOCATING IT IN THOSE 30 HOURS ON THE, ON THE SETTLEMENT POINT PRICE OR THE ANSWERS SERVICE IN BALANCE.
BUT THERE'S NO, THERE, THERE'S NO REQUIREMENT TO COVER YOUR LOAD ANCILLARY SERVICE AND A PARTICULAR RESERVE MARGIN.
THERE'S A LOT OF PENALTIES IF, IF YOU DON'T, OKAY.
UM, AND MAYBE THAT'S SUFFICIENT AND, AND, AND THE RIGHT PATH TO GO.
AND, UH, SO, SO, BUT, BUT THAT'S THE ONE THING THAT STANDS OUT TO ME.
UM, I'M NOT SURE HOW USEFUL THAT IS AS A CONVERSATION TODAY, BUT, UH, BUT I'M HAPPY TO SET UP SOMETHING ELSE TO, TO WORK THROUGH THAT.
UH, DID I TAKE US OFF OF NO, OF, OF A PATH.
SO, SO DAVE, DID YOU HAVE MORE QUESTIONS ON THE, I THINK THAT PRIMARILY COVERS IT.
I THINK RASHMI SPOKE ABOUT THEIR DYNAMIC OR RDC PROPOSAL A LITTLE BIT EARLIER AS PART OF THE PREVIOUS DISCUSSION.
UM, OH, MAYBE ONE OTHER THING, RASHMI, AND YOU ACTUALLY HAD BROUGHT THIS UP BEFORE, BUT YOU HAD MENTIONED THE IDEA OF, AND THIS IS RELATED TO YOUR O RDC PROPOSAL OF INSTEAD FOCUSING ON THE RANGE WHERE THE ONLINE RESERVES ARE BETWEEN THREE AND 4,000, I THINK IS THE, THE RANGE YOU HAD TALKED ABOUT EARLIER.
I GUESS ONE OF THE THINGS THAT CAME TO MIND AS COMPARED TO SOME OF THE RDC CHANGES WE HAD TALKED ABOUT WAS THAT ANCILLARY BENEFIT OF INCREASED COMMITMENT THAT SOME OF THOSE, THOSE LEVELS WHERE WE SEE RS TODAY.
SO I WAS NOT ASKING TO REMOVE THAT.
I WAS SAYING IF YOU WANT TO MAINTAIN THE CONE, THEN DO THE CONE THING BASED ON THE 3,504 THOUSANDS TO MATCH WITH THE PCM HOURS.
BUT UH, THE FLOOR THAT YOU ARE PUTTING IN OPTION THREE FOR THE RACK, THAT THAT'S A CORRECT RESERVE LEVEL BECAUSE YOU HAVE TO ENSURE WHATEVER RESERVE YOU ARE BUYING, YOU HAVE TO VALUE THOSE RESERVES.
I HADN'T CAUGHT THAT DISTINCTION.
IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE, UH, IN THE, ANYONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE OR SMI IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FROM YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU'D LIKE TO CALL UP BEFORE? GOT IT.
I'M GOOD, ERIC OFF, UH, I HAVE A QUESTION FOR I THINK CANAN, BUT ERCOT ABOUT RE'S PROPOSAL.
UM, JUST TO MIX IT UP A LITTLE BIT.
SO RE'S PROPOSAL HERE TO MODIFY AND NONS SPEND TO MAKE IT A TWO HOUR PRODUCT, UM, IS THAT, HOW IS THAT THE SAME AND HOW IS THAT DIFFERENT FROM WHAT YOU TALKED ABOUT AT OUR LAST WORKSHOP WHEN YOU SAID YOU'D HAVE, YOU COULD LOOK AT ANDROID SERVICE DEFINITIONS AGAIN AFTER WE IMPLEMENT E T O S, IS THAT WHAT YOU WERE THINKING? YES.
UM, SO, AND THEN I SEE SHAKING MY HEAD RESUME, IS THAT WHAT I'M TRYING TO UNDERSTAND? I DON'T THINK THAT IS THE SAME THOUGH, RIGHT? NO, IT'S, IT'S NOT THE SAME.
BUT I THINK WE, WE HAVE THE SAME CONCERN ABOUT TRYING TO FIGURE OUT IF WHAT WE CAN DO WITH NONS SPANN DIFFERENT UNTIL WE KNOW HOW ECR S WORKS.
SO, SO YEAH, THAT IS, BUT THAT WAS WHAT YOU WERE, YEAH.
SO, UH, YEAH, I'M TRYING TO NUANCE THIS CONVERSATION.
I, I THINK THAT IS A GOOD QUESTION, ERIC, IN, IN THAT THERE WERE DISCUSSIONS AT THE BOARD MEETING IN OTHER PLACES WHERE, UM, THE TOPIC WAS THAT WE HAVE RS RIGHT NOW AND WE SHOULDN'T CREATE ANOTHER ANCILLARY
[01:40:01]
SERVICE OR, UM, THE UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT TO AVOID THE RS BECAUSE E C R S IS COMING UHHUHIT IS THE ECS PLUS NONS SPIN IN THE FUTURE WILL BE THE SAME AS THE CURRENT LEVEL OF NONS SPIN.
SO IF ERCOT IS RACKING RIGHT NOW, IT WILL WRECK EVEN WITH THE C S.
THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT WITH CS, THEY COULD SAY MAYBE YOU DON'T NEED THAT 30 MINUTE RESERVE AND YOU CAN CONVERT IT INTO TWO HOURS.
BUT WHAT I WOULD SAY IS THERE IS VALUE IN 30 MINUTES AND SPLITTING IT INTO TWO HOURS TO SAY THAT RS IS 10 MINUTE PRODUCT, WHICH IS NEEDED FOR, UH, BA 0 0 2, I THINK, UH, BA 0 0 3 AND THEN EASY RS IS BA 0 0 2.
UH, AND THEN YOU RECOVER THOSE USING THE 30 MINUTE NONS SPIN, AND THEN WHATEVER ADDITIONAL SERVICE YOU NEED, WHICH WE ARE RIGHT NOW PROCURING AS NONS SPIN, WE CAN PROCURE IT FROM A CHEAPER OR LESS LOWER QUALITY PRODUCT, WHICH IS THE TWO HOUR PRODUCT.
SO YOU KEEP THE 30 MINUTE AND THEN PROCURE THE ADDITIONAL BUFFER IN THE LOWER QUALITY OF TWO HOUR SERVICE.
SO I, I THINK THE DIFFERENCE IS, UH, THE NEW SERVICE THAT, THAT SHE'S TALKING ABOUT IS NOT A NEAR TERM DELIVERABLE.
SO I, I BELIEVE THIS WAS, UH, A HUNT, UH, FILE FILING, WHICH WAS WELL, WHY NOT? UH, AND I'M NOT SURE, UH, WE SEE EYE TO EYE ON THE BOWEL TWO BOWEL THREE THING.
UH, JUST, JUST SO YOU KNOW, BUT, UM, BECAUSE IT'S 30 MINUTES OR LESS, SO THE 10 MINUTE PRODUCT COULD OH, YES.
UM, THERE, NOW I I, I DO THINK WE HAVE TO THINK THROUGH THE VALUE OF A 30 MINUTE PRODUCT.
UH, THAT, ESPECIALLY IF IT WAS ALL OFFLINE, THAT, THAT, THAT MIGHT BE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.
BUT, UM, UH, SO THE THINKING WAS THAT WE WOULD, WE COULD, IF WE DIDN'T NEED IT, CONVERT NONS SPIN INTO THE TWO HOUR PRODUCT, RIGHT.
AT WHICH POINT, UM, THAT COULD HELP US WITH THE RUCK ISSUE.
THE R ISSUE WILL ONLY BE RESOLVED IF YOU BUY MORE OF THAT TO OUR PRODUCT AGAIN, RIGHT? YES, YES.
IT'S, IT'S NOT THE CURRENT LEVEL.
SO YOU WILL HAVE TO BUY A LOT MORE ANCILLARY SURVEYS AND NOT NECESSARILY, SO WE, WE WOULD HAVE TO BUY, UM, ENOUGH OF THIS UNCERTAINTY PRODUCT TO COVER THE MODEL UNCERTAINTY THAT, THAT, SO THAT THE OPERATIONS WANTS TO MANAGE.
SO, KANA, WHEN YOU SAY YOU'RE NOT SURE THAT YOU ARE TOTALLY ALIGNED ON THE BALLO TWO AND VAL THREE COMMENTS, I THINK I'M MISSING A ZERO IN THERE.
BUT, UM, DO, DO YOU MEAN THAT, UH, SPECIFICALLY ABOUT WHETHER OUR C R S COULD BE USED TO CUT, RECOVER YOUR SPENDING RESERVES? IS THAT WHAT YOU MEAN? Y YES.
I, I THINK THERE, THERE'S A OPEN QUESTION IN AT LEAST THAT WE'RE TRYING TO WORK THROUGH THAT I COULD DO THAT ALL THROUGH ECR S OKAY.
BUT IF YOU COULD THEN YOU WOULDN'T NEED A NON RESPECT FOR THAT.
IS THAT FOLLOWING LOGIC THAT THEN ERGO THAT ALLOWS US TO REPURPOSE NON OKAY, I UNDERSTAND.
BUT A, AGAIN, I THINK THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE STILL TRYING TO WORK THROUGH.
UM, THAT WOULD ALL BE, AS YOU ARE WELL AWARE, BUT JUST TO SPEAK TO OUR AUDIENCE, THAT WOULD BE VERY HELPFUL WHEN YOU WORK THROUGH THAT TO COMMUNICATE THAT SO WE CAN GET A SENSE OF HOW YOU MIGHT DO THAT.
AND IT SEEMS LIKE BASED ON WHAT YOU SAID PREVIOUSLY, YOU WON'T FEEL CONFIDENT IN ANSWERING THAT QUESTION UNTIL YOU HAVE SOME EXPERIENCE WITH C R S THAT THAT'S CORRECT.
THAT, THAT THAT'S THE CHALLENGE BECAUSE RIGHT NOW, UH, YOU KNOW, I THINK OUR ANCILLARY SERVICE PLAN SAYS WE'LL PROCURE BETWEEN 1900 AND JUST OVER 3000 MEGAWATTS OF, UH, ECR S AND I JUST DON'T KNOW WHAT THAT MARKET LOOKS LIKE.
I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I'M ON THE SAME PAGE OF WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT HERE IS YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT INCREASING THE AMOUNT OF E C S OR THAT YOU WOULD NEED TO MAKE SURE YOU TAKE CARE OF YOUR 30 MINUTE RECOVERY AND THEN CHANGING THE, THE
[01:45:01]
TWO, THE CHANGING TO THE TWO HOUR OF THE NONS SPIN.I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE, CAUSE THAT'S WHEN I PUT INTO COMMENTS AND I WANTED TO SEE IF WE WERE ON THE SAME PAGE THERE.
AND, AND THEN JUST REAL QUICK, AND THEN, BECAUSE I, JUST TO MAKE SURE I, THE DISTINCTION I'M SEEING BETWEEN, SO THERE'S WHAT KENAN JUST SAID, AND BOB, YOU REAFFIRMED WHAT I THINK WE HAD TALKED ABOUT DURING THE PREVIOUS MEETINGS DISTINCTLY FROM THAT WAS REMI, WHAT I'M HEARING YOU SAY IS IN WHAT WE HAD JUST TALKED ABOUT WITH, WITH, WITH BOB AND CANAN, THERE WOULD NOT BE A CHANGE TO THE CONSTRAINTS WITHIN THE DAY AHEAD MARKET, RIGHT? WE'D BE KIND OF DOING THIS FULL CONVERSION.
WHAT YOU WERE TALKING ABOUT IS TO PROTECT THE 30 MINUTE TO INCREASE THE AMOUNT OF NONS SPIN, WE GET OPEN THAT UP TO TWO HOUR UNITS AND THEN HAVE A NEW CONSTRAINT IN THE DAY AHEAD MARKET TO ENSURE WE'RE GETTING SOME MINIMUM AMOUNT OF, OF 30 MINUTE PRODUCT WITH AS A SUBSET.
UM, SO, SO I, I, I'M SEEING WE'RE SEEING HEADS NOD.
I JUST WANTED TO MAKE SURE THAT FOLKS UNDERSTAND THAT DISTINCTION.
I GUESS IT'S A LITTLE UNCLEAR JUST FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH ON THE, ON THE DAY AHEAD, MARKET CONSTRAINT, HOW QUICK THAT IS FOR US HISTORICALLY WITH JUST SOME OF WHAT WE'VE SEEN, AND AGAIN, THOSE, IT'S PRIMARILY BEEN NEW PRODUCTS, BUT EVEN WITH SORT OF THE ADDING FFR AS A SUBSET OF RS, THAT THAT OBVIOUSLY WAS, WAS NOT SOMETHING THAT, THAT HAPPENED IN A VERY QUICK TIMEFRAME.
SO THAT, THAT'S JUST SOMETHING WE'LL HAVE TO THINK MORE THROUGH MORE.
I, I, I WOULD'VE, I WOULD'VE THOUGHT THAT THE, UM, THE TIMELINE FOR IMPLEMENTATION A LOT DEPENDENT ON CREATING REPORTS AND SUBMISSIONS AND THOSE KIND OF THINGS, AND, UH, CHANGING THE ENGINE IS MORE LIKE TESTING AND A B B CHANGE.
AND THAT WAS ANOTHER THING IN, IN THE FILING, WHICH, UH, SHAMS ALSO DISCUSSED IT, UM, ABOUT OPENING UP SOME OF THE CAPACITY THAT IF YOU END UP BUYING MORE OF THE NONS SPIN, OPENING UP THAT CAPACITY IN ROCK ENGINE, UH, GRANTED, UH, OPERATIONAL BEHAVIOR MIGHT HAVE TO CHANGE A LITTLE BIT TO SAY THAT THAT CAPACITY IS NOW AVAILABLE TO MEET SOME OF THOSE UNCERTAINTY AND NOT LIKE PROCURE ALL OF THOSE AGAIN IN R BUT OPENING UP THAT CAPACITY IN, IN R BY CHANGING THE PENALTY WILL ENSURE THAT RQ WON'T AUTOMATICALLY COMMIT THOSE RESOURCES, BUT OBVIOUSLY OPERATORS COULD END UP V VING LATER.
UH, SO THAT IS, UH, UM, I WOULDN'T SAY ISSUE, BUT MORE OF LOOKING AT WHY ARE WE BUYING THAT CAPACITY AND WHAT THAT CAPACITY IS NEEDED, AND ENSURING THAT IF THAT CAPACITY IS TO COVER FOR UNCERTAINTY, THEN CHANGING THE PENALTY IN THE, UM, ROCK ENGINE WILL ENSURE THAT THE ENGINE WILL SEE IT AS IT'S BEING AVAILABLE TO MEET THE UNCERTAINTY.
AND, AND I GUESS
DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT SECTION YOU REFERRED TO THEN? MAYBE THE AS SECTION? SORRY IF I'M NOT SEEING IT.
SO I THINK THIS IS SORT OF, KIND OF THIS PART AT THE END HERE AND I CAN TRY AND BLOW IT UP.
JUST REAL QUICK ON THAT ITEM, I'M, TO THE DEGREE WE JUST CHANGED THE PENALTIES OR EFFECTIVELY OPEN UP CERTAIN ANCILLARY SERVICES TO THE RUCK ENGINE TO USE FOR SOLVING POWER BALANCE, ESSENTIALLY MEETING LOW WITHOUT ANCILLARY SERVICES.
I AM, I AM CONVINCED THAT IS SIMPLY GOING TO LEAD TO MORE MANUAL RUCKS THAT ARE OUTSIDE OF THE, THE RUCK OPTIMIZATION.
THE ONLY WAY THAT THAT HAS THE BENEFIT THAT I'VE, I'VE HEARD FOLKS TALK ABOUT WOULD BE TO THE DEGREE THAT WE MOVE AWAY FROM OUR CURRENT LEVEL OF CONSERVED OPERATION.
BUT, BUT THAT'S A, YOU WOULD NEED THAT DEPENDENCY ON IT TO THE DEGREE WE ARE STILL SEEING THE NEED TO RUCK UNITS PER OUR, THE CRITERIA THAT WE HAVE IN PLACE.
I THINK THE ONLY OUTCOME OF CHANGING THAT PENALTY WITHIN THE RUCK OPTIMIZATION IS TO SEE MORE CONDITIONS IN WHICH THE, THE OPTIMIZATION ENGINE DOESN'T SEE A NEED.
AND YOU HAVE MANUAL ACTION BEING TAKEN BY OPERATORS WHERE THEY'RE, THEY'RE USING A BEST JUDGMENT TO SELECT THE RESOURCES AS, AS OPPOSED TO USING THE, THE, THE ECONOMIC OPTIMIZATION THAT'S WITHIN THE, THE RUCK SOLUTION ITSELF.
THE, UH, BY UH, REMOVING THAT BUYBACK, I THINK DEFINITELY HELPS THE OTHER PENALTY FACTOR, AS YOU SAID, THE OPERATORS CAN, UH, AT THE END R USING THE VDI.
SO IT IS ALSO AN OPERATIONS AN, UM, AGREEMENT THAT IF YOU BUY ADDITIONAL ANCILLARY SERVICE, THAT ADDITIONAL ANCILLARY SERVICE IS TO MEET THE UN UNCERTAINTY.
SO YOU SHOULD USE, RELY ON THAT CAPACITY TO, UM, COVER FOR THOSE UNCERTAINTIES.
[01:50:02]
SO PAMELA, I'M NOT SURE WHO'S IN THE, I THINK WE'VE LARGELY BEEN ABLE TO COVERYEAH, I THINK THAT, UH, THE, THE PENALTY CURVE, IF YOU ADJUST THAT AT LEAST ANY RUGS FOR LIKE TRANSMISSION ISSUES, AND IF THERE'S A NONS SPIN SOLUTION THERE THAT CAN, A RESOURCE THERE THAT CAN ACTUALLY SOLVE THAT CONGESTION ISSUE, THEN THAT THOSE RUGS WOULD GO AWAY.
UM, THE SYSTEM WIDE, YOU HAVE THE SYSTEM WIDE, OF COURSE THE CONSERVATIVE LIMIT THAT YOU'RE MANUALLY IMPOSING, BUT AT LEAST THOSE KIND OF CONSTRAINTS, UH, SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF.
I WOULD SAY, I THINK MOST OF THE, MOST OF THE FOCUS ON IMPROVING ROX IS AROUND THE CAPACITY CONSTRAINTS.
AND I, I'M WORRIED THAT IT MAKES IT WORSE, I GUESS IS IS THE POINT I'M, I'M TRYING TO MAKE, BUT I, I, I DO UNDERSTAND YOUR POINT IN TERMS OF SOLVING THE TRANSMISSION CONGESTION, BUT KANA YEAH, I, I WAS, UH, I I ALSO GET YOUR POINT ON THE TRANSMISSION CONGESTION, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE I I, I DID NOT ENVISION IT COMPLETELY ELIMINATING THE TRANSMISSION CONGESTION RS EITHER IT IS A REDUCTION.
AM I THINKING ABOUT THAT RIGHT, OR ARE YOU THINKING IT'S MORE NO, IT WOULD BE REDUCTION BECAUSE, OKAY, OKAY.
THE, UH, NONS SPIN RESOURCES HAVE TO BE IN THE RIGHT LOCATION AND STUFF.
SO I, I GUESS KENAN, YOU HAD MENTIONED THE IDEA OF TALKING ABOUT THE, JUST A QUICK UPDATE ON THE RDC PRESENTATION.
IS THAT BEST? AND, AND BLAKE, IF YOU'D LIKE, I CAN JUST PULL IT UP AND YOU CAN SPEAK TO IT.
AND, AND PERHAPS MAYBE, UH, BLAKE, THERE WERE JUST A COUPLE OF QUESTIONS YOU JUST WANT TO HIGHLIGHT THE, THE COUPLE OF THE CHANGES THAT WERE MADE.
YEAH, I GUESS YOU CAN START RIGHT THERE.
UH, FIRST OF ALL, I'M SORRY, AND THIS WAS THE, THIS WAS THE, THE, THIS LAST FILE, CORRECT? CORRECT.
BUT IF WE COULD JUST STAY ON THAT SCREEN FOR A BIT.
UM, I WAS ASKED FOR, MAYBE BRIAN HAD ASKED FOR THE TABULAR DATA BEHIND SOME OF THE CALCULATIONS IN THE SPREADSHEET, THAT FOURTH LINK THERE IS A LINK TO THE S SKID DATA.
I DON'T KNOW IF YOU WANT TO OPEN IT, BUT IT'S ALL S SKID OBSERVATIONS FROM LAST YEAR ALONG WITH THE, THE, UH, PRICE FLOORS THAT WE USED IN THE ANALYSIS.
UM, IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS THERE, I THINK THE COLUMNS ARE PRETTY SELF-EXPLANATORY, BUT IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THAT, YOU CAN REACH OUT TO ME.
AND THEN YES, IF YOU WANT TO CRACK OPEN THE DECK, I CAN TALK OVER THE CHANGES.
SO THE SECOND SLIDE WE ADDED, UM, UH, EXPECTED TIMELINE FOR THIS CHANGE AS PRESENTED HERE.
UH, IT'S EIGHT TO 12 MONTHS IS WHAT WE, WE ESTIMATE.
SO FAIRLY QUICK, AND IF YOU WANT TO JUMP DOWN TO SLIDE FIVE, DAVE, UH, CARRIE HAD REQUESTED THAT THE PRICE AVERAGES ON THE NEXT THREE SLIDES BE ADJUSTED FROM A SIMPLE AVERAGE TO A LOAD WEIGHTED AVERAGE.
UH, THE PRICES YOU SEE ON THESE TABLES HERE ARE NOW WEIGHTED BY THE G T B D OR THE GENERATION TWO BE DISPATCHED, UH, VARIABLE IN THE SPREADSHEET.
AND WHEN DAVE'S READY, WE CAN GO TO SLIDE EIGHT.
SO WE WERE ALSO ASKED TO DO A FUEL MIX, LOOK AT THE ADJUSTED INTERVALS OR THE INTERVALS WHERE WE ACTUALLY APPLIED THE FLOOR IN THE ANALYSIS.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE LEFT HAND SIDE OF THE CHART HERE, THIS IS THE AVERAGE FUEL MIX IN ALL OF 2022, UH, CODED BY THE, THE TYPE OF, UH, FUEL MIX PER COLOR THERE.
AND IF YOU LOOK IN THE RIGHT BAR, THIS IS THE AVERAGE OF ALL THE ADJUSTED INTERVALS IN THE ANALYSIS.
AND WHEN WE LOOKED AT EACH SCENARIO, THE FUEL MIX STILL STAYED RELATIVELY THE SAME.
SO WE JUST, UH, SUMMARIZED IT HERE WITH A SINGLE BAR.
AND JUST A COUPLE POINTS HERE THAT, THAT I'LL BRING UP IS, IF YOU LOOK AT THE, THE BLUE COLOR, WHICH IS THE NATURAL GAS FUEL MIX, THIS WENT UP BY AROUND 10% BETWEEN THE 2022, UH, AVERAGES TO THE ADJUSTED INTERVAL AVERAGES.
THIS IS AN INCREASE IN AROUND 24%.
AND IF YOU LOOK AT THE DARK BLUE, THIS IS THE WIND FUEL MIX.
THIS WAS ACTUALLY REDUCED BY, UH, AROUND 44% WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT ALL OF 22, 20, 22 VERSUS, UH, THE AVERAGE IN THE ADJUSTED INTERVALS.
AND IF WE WANT TO JUST GO DOWN TO ONE MORE SLIDE, SLIDE NINE.
UM, THE NEXT, UH, I GUESS IT'S FIVE SLIDES, SHOW ALL OF THE 15, UH, SCENARIOS APPLYING THE FUEL MIX TO THE INCREMENTAL REVENUE REALIZED IN THE ANALYSIS.
SO YOU CAN SEE PER FUEL TYPE WHAT THE INCREASE IN REVENUE WOULD'VE BEEN HAD.
WE APPLIED THIS IN 2022, AND THAT'S REALLY THE
[01:55:01]
UPDATES THAT WE'VE HAD HERE.UH, I'M HAPPY TO TAKE ANY QUESTIONS NOW OR OFFLINE IF NEEDED.
YOU SAID THE REVENUE FOR THE WIND REDUCED THE, THE RESOURCE MIX, ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? UM, YEAH, IF WE WANNA GO TO SLIDE EIGHT AGAIN, DAVE, SO MAYBE I'LL EXPLAIN IT AGAIN.
THE, THE LEFT BAR SHOWS THE FUEL MIX IN 2022 FOR WIND, SO THAT'S 25%.
AND AS WE GET LOWER WITHIN THESE, UH, 6,500 TO 7,500 RANGE, THE FUEL MIX ACTUALLY DROPPED TO AROUND 40.
IT'S A FUEL MIX, NOT THE REVENUE, CORRECT.
I GUESS MAYBE WAY TO THINK ABOUT IT IS THE, THE LEFT, SORRY, THE, UH, YEAH, THE, THE LEFT COLUMN STACKED COLUMN HERE IS LOOKING AT ALL INTERVALS IN 2022, THE RIGHT COLUMNS LOOKING WHAT WAS THE FUEL MIX DURING INTERVALS WHERE THE PRICE WAS ADJUSTED BECAUSE OF FLOOR WAS IN PLACE.
UH, BOB, YEAH, ON THE, THE LAST SLIDE WE SHOWED THE ONE WITH THE PRICES ON OF A HUNDRED AND THERE THAT ONE, THE $103 OVER THERE BY THE ARROW, THAT'S $103 PER NO, SORRY ABOUT THAT.
THE, THE Y XIS IN THIS CHART IS, UH, IN MILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
SO IF YOU WANNA LOOK AT THE 103, THE $103 MILLION MORE TO GAS GENERATION CORRECT.
QUICK, UH, IF YOU DON'T MIND, BLAKE, I KNOW WE HAD ONE OTHER PERSON IN TO QUEUE, BUT I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THERE WAS THINGS, THIS IS A INCREMENTAL AMOUNT OF DOLLARS TO RESOURCES IN INCREASED ENERGY PRICES.
THERE WAS ACTUALLY, WE HAD, BLAKE HAD PRESENTED THIS AT THE LAST MEETING, BUT I, I READ IT IN IN SOMEONE'S COMMENTS, AND I THINK THERE WAS A REQUEST LOOKING MORE AT THE REVENUES ASSOCIATED WITH THE HEADROOM AND THE O R D C.
THAT WAS SOMETHING BLAKE HAD SPOKEN ABOUT.
BUT THAT IS EFFECTIVELY WHAT WE'RE SHOWING IN THIS LAST SLIDE HERE.
THOSE, ALL THOSE OTHER SLIDES ARE CHANGES IN ENERGY REVENUE, SORT OF ASSUMING ALL ENERGY'S ONLY CLEARED TO REAL TIME AS, AS A, AS A PROXY FOR THAT.
THIS IS SHOWING THE SAME DATA EXCEPT FOCUSED ON ADDITIONAL RESERVE PAYMENT FOR HEADROOM.
AGAIN, SORT OF IGNORING THE FACT THAT IT'S REALLY AN IMBALANCE AND SORT OF ASSUMING ALL RESERVES ARE CLEARING IN THE REALTIME MARKET.
SO, UH, I DID WANT TO JUST EMPHASIZE THAT AGAIN BECAUSE IT SEEMED LIKE SOMEONE HAD A QUESTION ABOUT THAT OR, OR WAS CURIOUS ABOUT THAT IN THEIR COMMENTS.
ACTUALLY I WAS DOWNLOADING, I WAS ALL EXCITED BY THE DATA AND I WAS DOWNLOADING IT.
AND YOU MIGHT HAVE ACTUALLY ADDRESSED THIS QUESTION, BUT IT LOOKS LIKE THE, THE FILE I DOWNLOADED STOPS ON JUNE 18TH.
IS THAT IT'S NOT COMPLETE? THAT MAY BE, MAY BE RIGHT.
I'LL, I CAN DOUBLE CHECK AND MAKE SURE THAT I'VE DROPPED A, A COMPLETE FILE.
IT'S INTENDED, IT'S EITHER USER ERROR ON MY PART OR IT'LL, IT'LL EVENTUALLY BE DECEMBER 31ST.
IT SHOULD BE THE, OKAY, THANKS.
YOU SHOULD HAVE AROUND 106,000 INTERVALS THERE IF THEY'RE NOT THERE.
SOUNDS LIKE IT WAS AN EXCEL CONVERSION ISSUE OR IT STOPPED AT 65,000 OR SOMETHING LIKE THAT.
UM, SO I THINK, UH, I THINK KENAN HAD TO LEAVE, SO
I GUESS THE, MAYBE ONE OTHER SET OF COMMENTS THAT I, I THINK TALKED ABOUT SOMETHING DISTINCT WAS THE, UM, CALPINE COMMENTS.
I DON'T KNOW IF, IF BRIAN OR, OR SOMEONE FROM CALPINE IS AVAILABLE.
UM, BUT THEY HAD SPECIFICALLY TALKED ABOUT, I THINK IT WAS RELATED TO OPTION THREE AND THE O RDC ADJUSTMENTS.
I WAS WONDERING IF THEY'D LIKE TO SPEAK TO, TO THOSE.
PAMELA, DO WE KNOW IF, IF, UH, BRIAN'S ON THE CALL TODAY OR, UM, I KNOW BRIAN IS ON, UM, SPRING BREAK THIS WEEK.
UM, SO I DON'T THINK HE'S CALLED IN.
I HAD CHECKED WITH HIM AND HE DIDN'T, UM, SOUND LIKE HE WAS GONNA MAKE MAKE IT, BUT I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANOTHER CALPINE PERSON, UM, THAT'S ONLINE.
UH, SO I GUESS WITH THAT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY WE'VE TOUCHED UPON A NUMBER OF, UH, THESE CONCEPTS THAT PEOPLE HAD SPOKEN TO WITHIN THEIR COMMENTS.
I GUESS WITH THEIR, I'D LIKE TO SEE IF, UH, ANYONE HAD, UH, COMMENTS THAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO DIG INTO MORE DETAIL THAT, YOU KNOW, THEY DON'T THINK WAS, WAS COVERED AT LEAST IN, IN SOME LEVEL BY SOME OF, UM, WHAT WE'VE ALREADY TALKED ABOUT.
FOR EXAMPLE, I KNOW SOME FOLKS HAD SOME DIFFERENT WAYS OF COMING UP WITH, UH, FLOORS FOR R E C AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE, BUT, UH, DO YOU JUST WANNA SEE, UM, AGAIN, SORT OF OPEN
[02:00:01]
THE FLOOR FOR FOLKS TO DIG INTO THEIR SPECIFIC COMMENTS? SURE.UM, AND WHILE I, I NOTED EARLIER THAT, UM, I WASN'T SPEAKING WITH ANY PARTICULAR CLIENTS.
UM, I DID SUBMIT COMMENTS JOINTLY WITH OPEC AS A RESIDENTIAL CONSUMER.
SO I'M GONNA JUST SPEAK TO THAT SPECIFICALLY FOR THE MOMENT.
UH, IT'S NOT WORTH PULLING UP THERE PRETTY SHORT, BUT, UH, JUST ON THE POINT OF, UM, RDC, WE WERE CONCERNED THAT IF YOU DO GO THAT ROUTE, THAT ADDING SMALL, UH, YOU KNOW, SMALL DOLLAR AMOUNTS TO THE PRICE, UM, WOULDN'T HAVE A BEHAVIORAL CHANGE FOR CONSUMERS BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A MARKET, YOU'RE NOT GONNA HAVE A, A DEMAND RESPONSE IMPACT AT, YOU KNOW, $30 VERSUS $32.
AND SO IT DYSFUNCTIONS MORE LIKE A TAX.
UM, SO INSTEAD TRY TO DRAW THE CURVE IN SOME DIFFERENT WAY, UH, TO ACHIEVE THE SAME OUTCOME THAT COULD ENCOURAGE THOSE RESIDENTIAL CUSTOMERS RETAILERS TO ADD OR ENHANCE THE DEMAND RESPONSE PROGRAMS. AND THEN SECONDLY, UM, ON THE ANCILLARY SERVICES PROPOSAL, TO THE EXTENT THAT PEOPLE HAVE CONCERNS ABOUT, UM, UH, CHANGE IN LAW ISSUES RELATED TO NEW ANCILLARY SERVICES OR A LARGER AMOUNT OF ANCILLARY SERVICES THAN NEAR TERM, ERCOT COULD INDICATE THEY WERE GOING TO BUY ANCILLARY SERVICES IN, IN FUTURE YEARS IN ORDER TO TRY TO AFFECT THE FORD PRICE.
SO RATHER THAN SAYING WE'RE GONNA BUY THEM MORE IN THREE MONTHS FROM NOW, WE CAN SAY IN 16 MONTHS FROM NOW, WE'RE GOING TO START BUYING THIS HIGHER QUANTITY TO GIVE PEOPLE THE INDICATION THAT THINGS WILL BE HAPPENING IN THE FUTURE OR TRY TO HAVE AN IMPACT IN THE NEAR TERM, BUT NOT TOMORROW.
AND I GUESS I'LL SAY ON THE, ON THE RDC COMPONENT, AT LEAST AS WE HAD THOUGHT ABOUT THE FLOOR, I, IT MAKES SENSE THAT I DON'T THINK THAT THAT WOULD HAVE MUCH BENEFIT IN TERMS OF DEMAND RESPONSE IN TERMS OF THE FLOOR PRICES WE WERE TALKING ABOUT.
YEAH, I THINK WE, I THINK WE WERE ANTICIPATING, AND IT LINKS TO SOME OF THAT ANCILLARY BENEFIT OF RUCK REDUCTION IS THAT THERE WOULD BE A BEHAVIORAL CHANGE IN TERMS OF UNIT COMMITMENT.
BUT, BUT CERTAINLY YOU'RE RIGHT.
I MEAN, I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER PROPOSALS THAT, THAT FOLKS HAD THOUGHT ABOUT, FOR EXAMPLE, RE'S ADJUSTMENTS AROUND THREE TO 4,000, THOSE WOULD BE AT HIGHER PRICE LEVELS AND, AND MAY RESULT IN IN MORE DEMAND RESPONSE.
IF, IF YOU'RE GONNA BE SENDING A PRICE SIGNAL, UM, IT'S JUST IMPORTANT TO THINK THROUGH ABOUT HOW THAT PRICE SIGNAL IMPACTS EVERYBODY IN THE MARKET.
AND, UM, IF IT'S, IF IT'S JUST A, A FEW BUCKS HERE AND THERE, IT INCREASES REVENUE FOR GENERATORS, BUT DOESN'T HAVE A MATERIAL, YOU KNOW, IMPACT ON CONSUMER BEHAVIOR.
I, I GUESS IN TERMS OF THE, THE SECOND ITEM, I GUESS THIS IS A LITTLE DIFFERENT THAN WHAT YOU WERE SPECIFICALLY TALKING ABOUT AND THINKING ABOUT, UM, COMMUNICATING SOMETHING THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN TO THE FUTURE.
I, I KNOW ONE OF THE OTHER ITEMS MANY FOLKS COMMENTED ON WAS RELATED TO WHETHER OR NOT THESE CHARGES COULD BE PASSED THROUGH TO CUSTOMERS OR HOW THAT WOULD WORK.
UM, AND SO I GUESS I DID WANNA AT LEAST NOTE THAT THAT WAS SOMETHING THAT CAME UP DURING THE LAST MEETING AND, AND WE DID SEE SEVERAL FOLKS BRING THAT UP AS PART OF THEIR, UM, AS PART OF THEIR COMMENTS AND, AND I GUESS I SAW LOTS AS TO SOME DEGREE IT WAS AN OPPOSITION OR SOME DEGREE WAS THEY WERE NEUTRAL ON THE CONCEPT, BUT WANTED THAT TO BE PART OF THE CONSIDERATION IF IT DID MOVE FORWARD.
SO DO WANNA NOTE THAT IF ANYONE WANTS TO SPEAK TO THAT IN MORE DETAIL, I'D BE HAPPY TO TURN OVER THE FLOOR TO THEM.
WE EXPRESSED SIMILAR CONCERNS AND KIND OF OUR NO RESPONSE TO SOME OF THE OTHER OPTIONS BECAUSE OF THAT ISSUE.
WE ARE AFRAID, ESPECIALLY HOW IT IMPACT BOTH FIXED AND VARIABLE PRICE CUSTOMERS FOR SOME OF THOSE OPTIONS.
UM, AND, AND TRY TO AVOID, YOU KNOW, DISPUTES OVER CONTRACT TERMS. IT'S EASIER IF YOU FORECAST YOUR INTENTIONS FURTHER INTO THE FUTURE.
IS THERE ANY CO IS THERE ANY MORE COMMENTS ON ERIC OR, I KNOW THEY SAW SOMEONE ELSE IN THE QUEUE, I'M GUESSING THEY, THEY WANT TO TALK ABOUT THEIR COMMENTS.
FLOYD, DO YOU WANNA TALK ABOUT YOUR COMMENTS? YEAH, THANKS.
JUST A QUICK QUESTION IN THE ZIP FILE, UH, SHAMS, WHAT NAME DID YOU USE TO DESCRIBE YOUR COMMENTS? IT'S ON THE, UH, HUNT ENERGY NETWORK.
I GUESS I'VE TRIED TO HIGHLIGHT IT ON THE SCREEN, ALTHOUGH IT'S QUITE SMALL.
I DON'T THINK I CAN BLOW IT UP.
UM, THE ONE THING I WANTED TO, TO POINT OUT, AND THIS IS ACTUALLY ALSO A A JUST A, A CORRECTION ON THE MATRIX.
UM, BUT I, I FIGURED I'D JUST MAKE IT AS A PUBLIC SERVICE ANNOUNCEMENT IT IN LUMINANCE'S COMMENTS.
[02:05:01]
WHAT WE WERE TRYING TO RECOMMEND FOR THE OR DC FLOOR WASN'T NECESSARILY THAT IT SHOULD AVERAGE 20 OR $25 AT THE FLOOR, BUT RATHER BECAUSE IT WOULD INTRODUCE A, UM, YOU KNOW, IT WOULD NO LONGER BE A SMOOTH CURVE, BUT IT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT SNAPS IN BETWEEN RESOURCES THAT ARE TRYING TO MAKE COMMITMENT DECISIONS AROUND THAT MARGIN ARE GOING TO BE LOOKING TO TRY TO COVER THEIR COMMITMENT COST ON AVERAGE.AND SO TO THE EXTENT THAT ERCOT PRIOR ANALYSIS HAD LOOKED AT, YOU KNOW, LIKE A 10 TO $15 COMMITMENT COST FOR A, A MARGINAL RESOURCE, UM, AROUND THAT POINT, YOU WOULD WANT SOMETHING, YOU WOULD WANT THE FLOOR PRICE TO GET TO THAT ON AVERAGE IN ORDER TO MAKE THAT DECISION, UH, YOU KNOW, RATIONAL SINCE SOMETIMES YOU'RE GONNA, SOMETIMES YOU'RE GONNA GET A HEAD FAKE AND SOMETIMES YOU'RE NOT.
UM, AND THEN THE OTHER PIECE ON, ON JUST WHERE THAT FLOOR SHOULD SIT, UM, YOU KNOW, I, I AGREE WITH OTHER COMMENTS THAT, THAT FOLKS HAVE MADE THROUGHOUT THE DAY THAT, YOU KNOW, THE MOST EFFICIENT WAY TO DO THAT IS TO LINK THAT TO WHATEVER ERCOT PREFERRED COMMITTED CAPACITY MARGIN IS, WOULD BE, YOU KNOW, I KNOW I'VE HEARD DIFFERENT NUMBERS TOSSED OUT.
SOME FOLKS HAVE SAID, YOU KNOW, IT'S 6,500.
OTHERS HAVE SAID, WELL, IT'S SOMETIMES 7,500.
I'VE HEARD SOME FOLKS ASK ME, IS IT 8,000? UM, THAT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT I'M IN THE BEST POSITION TO, TO OPINE ON, BUT WHATEVER IT IS I THINK SHOULD ALIGN WITH WHAT Y'ALL WANT IN ORDER TO GET THE MOST ECONOMIC COMMITMENTS.
UM, AND AS OPPOSED TO HAVING TO RELY ON THE THE R TOOL.
AND SO IN THAT, IN, IN THAT SENSE, EVEN THOUGH, YOU KNOW, REDUCING RUCKS IS NOT AN EXPLICIT OBJECTIVE IN THE, UH, THE BRIDGING SOLUTION, UH, TO THE EXTENT THAT THAT'S A, A BONUS CHARACTERISTIC, I THINK THAT'S, THAT'S ONE THAT YOU CAN, UH, YOU CAN AFFECT WITH OPTION.
I THINK WE'RE TALKING OPTION THREE HERE.
UM, AND, AND SO, YOU KNOW, AT LEAST WANT TO, YOU KNOW, APPLAUD Y'ALL FOR THINKING ABOUT THAT IN A WAY THAT, UM, THAT ADDRESSES THAT.
AND, AND THEN CERTAINLY THAT WAS, I THINK WE HAD TALKED ABOUT THAT WHEN, WHEN BLAKE HAD PRESENTED AT THE MEETING LAST TIME, WAS THE INTENT WAS THAT THAT THAT RANGE OF THAT FLOOR AND WHY WE PICKED SOME OF THOSE VALUES WAS LINKING TO SOME OF THAT, THAT CONSERVATIVE OPERATION.
UM, I GUESS THERE'S, THERE'S A LITTLE BIT OF A DISTINCTION AS YOU TALK ABOUT THIS AND THERE'S NOT A DIRECT TRANSLATION NECESSARILY AS WE THINK ABOUT SOME OF THAT, UH, THAT CRITERIA AND THAT WE'RE LOOKING AT THE ONLINE RESERVE CAP OF, OF RDC RTOL CAP FOR THE, FOR THE, TO USE THE ACRONYM.
AND THEN THERE, THAT IS NOT A, A DIRECT TRANSLATION AS YOU THINK ABOUT WHAT THE OPERATORS ARE ALSO LOOKING FOR EXAMPLE, AT OFFLINE NONS SPINNING AND THINGS OF THAT NATURE.
UH, I I JUST REAL QUICK ON THE FIRST POINT ON THE, ON THE DIFFERENT FLOOR, SO THE LOGIC, IF THE IDEA IS JUST TO, JUST TO SORT OF RESTATE WHAT I HEARD, IF $10 WAS THE, THE VALUE NECESSARY TO INDUCE COMMITMENT AT THAT LEVEL BECAUSE THERE'S A CLIFF AT THAT LEVEL AND THERE'S SOME PROBABILITY YOU'LL BE ON EITHER SIDE OF THAT CLIFF, YOU ACTUALLY NEED SOMETHING HIGHER BECAUSE OF THAT, BECAUSE OF THAT GUESSING GAME.
THAT'S, THAT'S THE WAY THAT WE WERE THINKING ABOUT IT WHEN WE LOOKED AT THAT AS YOU KNOW, IF YOU ARE ON THE MARGIN, THEN YOU ARE, YOU, YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT GONNA BE A SMOOTH RAMP UP WHERE, UH, IF YOU, IF YOU HAPPEN TO COME UP A LITTLE BIT SHORT, IT'S ONLY GONNA BE A LITTLE BIT, YOU KNOW, IT'S, IT'S ZERO OR SOMETHING ELSE.
AND THAT'S GONNA HAPPEN, YOU KNOW, MULTIPLE TIMES THROUGHOUT, YOU KNOW, CERTAINLY ACROSS THE YEAR, POSSIBLY THROUGHOUT THE DAY.
UM, SO IT'S, IT'S JUST, UH, TRY TO GET IT RIGHT ON AVERAGE APPROACH.
SO, AND, AND I, AND I, I THINK I UNDERSTAND THE POINT, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE RIGHT AT THAT MARGIN.
AND I, I SAID CLIFF, CUZ THAT'S WHAT WE USE FOR THE, I GUESS THE STEP IS PROBABLY THE MORE APPROPRIATE TERM FOR, FOR HOW THAT FLOOR WOULD APPLY.
UH, POINT OF CLARIFICATION AROUND OPTION SIX, UM, I THINK OUR VIEW OF, YOU KNOW, THE VALUE THAT THAT WOULD PROVIDE IS KIND OF ONCE SOME OF THE PARAMETERS AND THE POLICY DECISIONS HAVE BEEN WORKED OUT, THAT THAT WOULD BE USEFUL INFORMATION FOR THE MARKET.
UM, AS I RECALL, CARRIE'S COMMENTS AT THE START OF THIS WERE REALLY AROUND, UM, POSTING THOSE VALUES, INDICATIVE VALUES COULD HELP, UH, IDENTIFY SOME OF THE FLAWS.
AND I GUESS WE'RE LOOKING AT THE, THE EXERCISE MAYBE SIMILARLY, BUT FROM DIFFERENT VANTAGE POINTS.
CAN ERCOT SPEAK TO HOW THEY WOULD PROPOSE AND WHEN AND BASED ON, YOU KNOW, AS E THREE FILED, OR WOULD THAT BE SUBJECT TO SOME OF THE FURTHER POLICY DISCUSSIONS THAT THE COMMISSION HAS HAD? YEAH, MY GENERAL THOUGHT IS, IN AN IDEAL WORLD, WE'D WANNA BASE THAT TO THE DEGREE THE, THE COMMISSION HAS MADE SOME POLICY DECISIONS, FOR EXAMPLE, ON ELIGIBILITY.
UH, CERTAINLY THE RELIABILITY STANDARD AND THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD ALSO FEED INTO IT.
IDEALLY, WE'D HAVE AN INDICATIVE PCM THAT REFLECTS ALL OF THOSE POLICY DECISIONS TO THE DEGREE WE WANTED TO MAKE IT MOVE FASTER AS THOSE CONVERSATIONS CONTINUE.
[02:10:01]
HAD SHARED LAST TIME IS THAT WE WOULD DEFAULT IF WE WANTED EARLIER TO THE ASSUMPTIONS USED IN THE E THREE ANALYSIS THAT WAS PERFORMED.NOW, I WILL SAY THERE'S PROBABLY STILL SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT THE ASSUMPTIONS THAT E THREE USED.
SO HOW I WOULD ENVISION TO DEGREE WE USED SORT OF THAT AS A DEFAULT IS THAT WE WOULD BE COORDINATING WITH E THREE ON HOW THEY DID THAT ANALYSIS AND, AND HAVE SOME DOCUMENTATION TO STATE ALL OF OUR ASSUMPTIONS IN HOWEVER WE'RE DOING THE INDICATIVE PRICING.
SO THAT COULD BE BASED ON MORE OF A, FOR EXAMPLE, THE E THREE SAID IN THE REPORT THAT THEY ASSUMED THEY, UH, 0.1 L O L E AS THEIR RELIABILITY STANDARD JUST TO GET THE BALL MOVING ON THEIR ANALYSIS.
WE WOULD CALL OUT SORT OF THAT ASSUMPTION AND, AND, YOU KNOW, ASSUMPTIONS RUN ELIGIBILITY IN ALL THOSE THINGS AS PART OF SOME SORT OF, WHETHER YOU CALL IT A WHITE PAPER OR SOME SORT OF, UH, WORKING DOCUMENT THAT WOULD GO ALONG WITH OUR POSTING THAT WOULD EVOLVE OVER TIME, PRESUMABLY AS, UH, POLICY DECISIONS ARE MADE, AGAIN, SORT OF ALL ASSUMING OF COURSE THAT WE ARE GONNA MOVE FORWARD WITH THE PCM IN THE LONGER TERM.
IF I COULD PUT A PITCH IN FOR HOW YOU DESCRIBE YOUR IDEAL WORLD, I DO THINK THAT'S GONNA BE MORE USEFUL THAN SIMPLY POINTING OUT SOME OF THE FLAWS THAT WE'RE ALREADY GRAPPLING WITH.
UM, I DON'T WANNA GIVE FOLKS BAD INFORMATION, RIGHT.
ESPECIALLY POLICYMAKERS WHO ARE IN SESSION RIGHT NOW.
AND I DON'T UNDERSTAND IF YOU, WHETHER YOU WANTED, I THINK CARRIE MENTIONED, AND NOW YOU'RE DESCRIBING A SORT OF FLAWS IN THE DESIGN.
I ALSO JUST THINK ABOUT SORT OF JUST WORKING OUT THE KINKS OF IMPLEMENTATION, OBVIOUSLY AS AN IMPORTANT POINT OF ERCOT.
YOU KNOW, I THINK SOMEONE, AND, AND CARRIE HAD MENTIONED THIS, I THINK ABOUT ALL OF THAT WORK DONE.
FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN WE DID O R D C, YOU KNOW, WE, WE PUT ALL THOSE VALUES INTO A SPREADSHEET, THEN SORT OF BACK CASTED 2011 AND 2012 AS FOLKS REMEMBER.
AND, AND THERE WAS A LOT OF MECHANICS THAT GOT WORKED OUT THAT EVENTUALLY ENDED UP IN THE WHITE PAPER THAT BECAME THE OTHER BINDING DOCUMENT THAT GOES THROUGH ALL THAT DETAIL.
ME AND HALONG, I THINK ARE THE MAIN FOLKS WITH THOSE SPREADSHEETS.
OH, HE WASN'T GONNA MENTION THAT ERIC? NO, IT WAS PIECEWISE LINEAR AS, UH, AS BOB CALLED DOWN
ANYONE ELSE IN THE CUBE? PAMELA.
UH, ONE LAST CHANCE, I GUESS FOR ANYONE WHO, UH, WANTED TO SPEAK TO THEIR COMMENTS OR, UH, JUST HAS A QUESTION THAT THEY'VE BEEN INCHING TO ASK, THEN I KNOW IT'S BEEN A LONG DAY WITH, UH, THE DUAL WORKSHOPS IN THE MORNING AND AFTERNOON.
ONE QUESTION SINCE YOU'RE WRAPPING UP, IT APPEARS, UH, NOW YOU'VE GOT ALL THE FEEDBACK AND THIS IS YOU GUYS' DECISION, NOT OURS.
SO WHAT'S YOUR TIMEFRAME? JUST REMIND ME OF YOUR TIMEFRAME OF WHEN YOUR DECISION'S GONNA BE MADE, WHEN IT'LL BE MADE PUBLIC AND THAT STUFF.
UH, I, I GUESS I, I CAN'T PROBABLY GIVE YOU FIRM TIMELINES AND IN TERMS OF I WANTED BY A MINUTE.
UH, SO I OBVIOUSLY, UM, KAAN WILL BE PRESENTING AT THE TAC MEETING NEXT TUESDAY.
UH, AS HE MENTIONED EARLIER, UH, I GUESS ONE THING, AND I THINK THAT'S PRIMARILY GONNA BE FOCUSED ON STILL SOME OF OUR, OUR CURRENT THOUGHTS, BUT PRIMARILY ALSO TRYING TO SUMMARIZE THE FEEDBACK WE'VE GOTTEN SO FAR AS WELL FOR, FOR T MEMBERS TO BE AWARE OF AND JUST FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC TO BE AWARE OF AS WE DO THAT PRESENTATION.
SO AGAIN, THAT'S WHY I HAD MENTIONED EARLIER TO THE DEGREE YOU DON'T LIKE HOW WE'VE CHARACTERIZED YOUR COMMENTS THUS FAR ON THAT SPREADSHEET.
THIS WOULD BE YOUR OPPORTUNITY TO, UH, TO SEND THAT FEEDBACK TO US.
AND WE, WE WILL UPDATE THAT, THAT SUMMARY, BECAUSE I BELIEVE THAT'S GOING TO BE USED AS AN INPUT TO WHATEVER KON WILL PRESENT, UH, TO THE, TO THE, TO THE COMMITTEE NEXT TUESDAY.
UM, I DON'T SEE NEXT TUESDAY BEING A FINAL RECOMMENDATION THAT REALLY WILL BE PRESENTED TO THE BOARD AS MY EXPECTATION ON THE APRIL 17TH MEETING FOR THE R AND M COMMITTEE.
UM, AND AGAIN, I THINK MAYBE ONE THING TO NOTE IS, AND CANNOT HAD ALSO MENTIONED THIS EARLIER, IS THAT'S WHY WE'RE ALSO WANTING FOLKS TO CONTINUE SENDING IN ANY COMMENTS THAT THEY HAVE.
I THINK THE, THE DATE THAT HE HAD LISTED WAS HOPING TO HAVE ALL THOSE IN BY APRIL 1ST BE BECAUSE OF OUR TIMELINES FOR GETTING MATERIAL FOR THE BOARD, THAT'S GONNA BE SORT OF A, A FINAL DATE IN WHICH WE CAN ABSORB AND, AND INCLUDE ANY OF THAT FEEDBACK INTO WHAT, UH, WILL EVENTUALLY BE PRESENTED AT THAT MEETING ON THE 17TH.
ANYTHING ELSE? SO AGAIN, UH, MAYBE JUST TO CLOSE IT OUT, ONE, UH, THANK YOU FOR ALL THE COMMENTS THAT WE GOT.
THEY, THEY ARE VERY HELPFUL AND WE OBVIOUSLY ARE, ARE GOING THROUGH IT AND, AND MAKING SURE
[02:15:01]
THAT WE UNDERSTAND WHAT EVERYONE HAS SHARED.UM, WHILE WE DID GIVE FOLKS A, AN INITIAL DEADLINE OF THE, OF THIS PAST MONDAY TO GET THOSE IN FOR, UH, THIS MEETING, OF COURSE THAT IS NOT A A, AN ENTIRE DEADLINE THERE, THERE'S STILL MORE TIME FOR PEOPLE TO SHARE THAT FEEDBACK, EITHER IN TERMS OF THAT CHARACTERIZATION IN OUR SUMMARY OR JUST TO PROVIDE, UH, ADDITIONAL COMMENTS, UH, THAT WE CAN INCLUDE IN OUR, IN OUR THINKING AS WE MOVE FORWARD IN THE PRESENTATIONS TO TACK AND THE BOARD THAT WE JUST TALKED ABOUT, SPEAKING ABOUT THE TRIVIA QUESTION ON WHO DID THE, THE MATRIX, YOU KNOW, AND ALL THAT OTHER TRIVIA QUESTION IS WHO DREW THE FIRST PIECE WISE LINEAR CURVE? NOPE.
ALL RIGHT, WELL WITH THAT, WE'LL CLOSE IT OUT.
THANK YOU ALL VERY MUCH, UH, FOR ALL THE INPUT TODAY.