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YOU HAVE QUORUM.

[00:00:01]

SO LET'S GO.

UM, GOOD MORNING

[1. Call General Session to Order]

EVERYONE, AND WELCOME TO THE SESSION OF THE TECHNOLOGY AND SECURITY COMMITTEE.

UM, I'M GONNA CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER.

UH, I DON'T BELIEVE THERE'S A NEED TO CALL A PUC OPEN MEETING TO ORDER 'CAUSE IT'S, I ONLY SEE ONE PUC REPRESENTATIVE HERE.

ONE, ONE COMMISSIONER HERE, I SHOULD SAY.

UM, LET ME REMIND YOU OF YOUR ANTITRUST AND SECURITY ADMONITIONS.

UM, PUBLIC COMMENT.

I DON'T BELIEVE THERE HAVE BEEN ANY REQUESTS FOR PUBLIC COMMENT, UH, BUT LET ME JUST VERIFY THAT WITH MY LEGAL TEAM.

THAT'S CORRECT.

UM, FOR THE RECORD, MY NAME IS SHANA HORTON AND I WILL BE YOUR, UH, LEGAL COUNSEL HERE FOR TNS, UM, REPLACING JONATHAN LEVINE.

GREAT WELCOME, SHANA.

UM, WE HAVE SOME MINUTES TO APPROVE, UH, THE JU JUNE 17TH GENERAL SESSION MEETING MINUTES, UM, SHOULD BE IN YOUR PACKAGES.

I ASSUME YOU'VE LOOKED AT THEM.

ARE THERE ANY

[3. June 17, 2024 General Session Meeting Minutes]

QUESTIONS ABOUT THE MINUTES? IF NOT, IF I CAN HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE.

THANK YOU.

ANY OPPOSED? HEARING NONE, THE MOTION'S CARRIED.

LET'S GET INTO THE MEAT OF THE MEETING.

I'M DELIGHTED TO KICK THIS OFF WITH OUR

[4. Emerging Technology – Introduction to Grid Enhancing Technologies (GETs)]

FIRST SESSION.

UM, WE HAVE A VERY INTERESTING TOPIC THIS MORNING, EMERGING TECHNOLOGY INTRODUCTION TO GRID ENHANCING INTRODUCTION TO GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES.

OUR SPEAKER IS ANNA LA, UH, FROM EPRI.

SHE'S THE SENIOR TEAM LEADER AND DEPUTY PROGRAM MANAGER OF BULK SYSTEM INTEGRATION OF RENEWABLES AND DISTRIBUTED ENERGY RESOURCES AT EPRI.

HER RESEARCH FOCUSES ON STRATEGIC DECISION MAKING FOR SUCCESSFUL ENERGY TRANSITIONS, WHERE SHE PLACES A SPECIAL INTEREST IN THE INTEREST IN THE INTERACTION BETWEEN LONG RANGE RESOURCE PLANNING, TRANSMISSION PLANNING, MARKET DESIGN, AND GRID OPERATIONS.

SHE HAS OVER 16 YEARS EXPERIENCE IN THE POWER SYSTEM INDUSTRY WITH A FOCUS ON RELIABILITY, RESOURCE ADEQUACY, AND MARKET DESIGN.

BEFORE JOINING EPRI, SHE WAS A SUPERVISOR OF RELIABILITY ASSURANCE AT ONTARIO'S IESO, WHERE SHE DEVELOPED ITS CAPACITY MARKET AND SET SPECIFICATIONS FOR LONG-TERM CONTRACTS.

SHE ALSO HELD LONG, UH, RE UH, LEADERSHIP ROLES AT NERC, INCLUDING A TERM AS THE CHAIR OF NER R'S RELIABILITY ASSESSMENT COMMITTEE.

SHE HAS A DEGREE IN ENVIRONMENTAL ENGINEERING FROM WATERLOO AND A MASTER'S, UH, IN ENGINEERING WITH AN EMPHASIS ON SUSTAINABLE ENERGY FROM THE UNIVERSITY OF TORONTO.

SO, WITHOUT FURTHER ADO, ANNA, THE FLOOR IS YOURS.

THANK YOU.

UH, SO LIKE SAID, I'M GONNA TALK TO YOU A LITTLE BIT ABOUT GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES, AN INTRODUCTION, UH, AND, UH, WHAT KIND OF POTENTIAL THEY HAVE.

SO THESE THINGS YOU PROBABLY ALREADY KNOW, BUT JUST TO LEVEL SET, UH, WHY DO WE CARE ABOUT GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES? THERE? REALLY IT'S ABOUT EXPANDING THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM.

SO, UH, UNDOUBTEDLY, YOU KNOW THAT WITH INCREASING RENEWABLES, WITH THE AMOUNT OF ELECTRIFICATION THAT WE'RE HAVING, THAT THERE IS A LOT OF PRESSURE TO BUILD THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM.

IT'S TAKEN A HUNDRED PLUS YEARS TO BUILD WHAT WE HAVE TODAY, AND WE'RE BEING ASKED TO BUILD THAT MUCH IN MUCH LESS TIME IN ABOUT A DECADE.

AND BY DOING SO, NOT ONLY CAN WE INTEGRATE RENEWABLES, WHICH IS VERY IMPORTANT HERE IN TEXAS, BUT REDUCE CONGESTION CON AND CURTAILMENT.

IT HAS SOME RELIABILITY BENEFITS, UM, AND SUPPORTS SOME OF THE DECARBONIZATION EFFORTS THAT ARE GOING ON.

THE CATCH IS, AS WE'VE SEEN, INVESTMENTS IN THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM ARE SLOWING DOWN DESPITE THE FACT THAT WE NEED THEM TO SPEED UP.

UM, 90% OF TRANSMISSION IN THE US HAS BEEN BASED ON RELIABILITY.

WHAT THAT MEANS IS THAT EXPANSION PLANNING THAT WOULD PERHAPS CONSIDER CURTAILMENT OR ECONOMIC BENEFITS, UH, AREN'T REALLY PRIORITIZED IN THE SAME WAY.

AND THAT MEAN THAT CAN CAUSE SOME ISSUES IN TERMS OF MARKETS AS WELL, RIGHT? SO CHANGES IN PRICES AS A RESULT OF THAT.

SO WHAT ARE WE INVESTING IN? WELL, 93% OF WHAT WE INVEST IN IN AMERICA HAS BEEN TRADITIONAL TRANSMISSION LINE TECHNOLOGIES.

ONLY 7% ARE WHAT ARE CONSIDERED ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES.

AND I'LL TALK THROUGH SOME OF THOSE ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES TODAY.

GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES ARE PROBABLY THE, THE LARGEST CHUNK OF ADVANCED TECHNOLOGIES FOR TRANSMISSION, BUT WE SEE THAT THEY COULD HAVE A MUCH MORE SIGNIFICANT, UH, IMPACT IN THE FUTURE.

AND SO THIS IS REALLY IMPORTANT.

JUST BECAUSE YOU HEAR 7%, UM, IN THE PAST DOES NOT MEAN

[00:05:01]

THAT THAT'S ALL THAT WE SHOULD THINK ABOUT FOR THE FUTURE, OR THAT IT SHOULDN'T BE A SIGNIFICANT PORTION OF WHAT WE BUILD IN THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS.

ONE OF THE THINGS THAT'S VERY EXCITING, SO I I LEAD AN INITIATIVE AT EPRI ON GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES.

WE CALL IT GA SET.

AND WHEN WE INITIATED THIS LATE LAST YEAR, UH, PROBABLY LIKE A LOT OF YOU MIGHT FEEL IT'S THIS EMERGING TECHNOLOGY NOT WELL UNDERSTOOD.

UM, IT MIGHT CON MIGHT BE PERCEIVED AS SOMETHING THAT'S SOMEWHAT NICHE.

HOWEVER, IN THE LAST SIX MONTHS, WE HAVE SEEN THE INTEREST IN THIS TECHNOLOGY GROW EXPONENTIALLY.

AND I'VE PUT HERE A COUPLE OF OF THINGS THAT, THAT HAVE COME OUT THAT HAVE BEEN REALLY INFLUENTIAL.

SO IN MARCH, I BELIEVE IT WAS MARCH THIS YEAR, UH, DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY PUBLISHED A REPORT CALLED, UM, THE INNOVATIVE GRID DEPLOYMENT AS PART OF THEIR PATHWAYS TO COMMERCIAL LIFTOFF REPORTS.

SO THESE LIFTOFF REPORTS ARE, UH, AN INTENTION BY THE DOE TO SHOW WHAT GAPS THEY THERE ARE AND THINGS TO CLOSE TO GET TO FULL SCALE DEPLOYMENT.

SO GOING PAST THAT PILOT STAGE, UH, INTO FULL DEPLOYMENT.

UM, AND I'LL TALK THROUGH A LITTLE BIT OF FROM THAT AS WELL.

AT THE SAME TIME, UH, FERC ISSUED, UH, 1920.

THEY'VE ISSUED SEVERAL REPORTS OR, UM, SEVERAL ORDERS.

AND IN THOSE, THEY'VE REQUESTED AND REQUIRED THAT GR ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES ARE CONSIDERED IN TRANSMISSION PLANNING.

NOW, WHILE FERC DOESN'T HAVE JURISDICTION HERE IN TEXAS, I THINK IT IS IMPORTANT TO NOTE, RIGHT, BECAUSE THESE THINGS INFLUENCE THE WIDER, UM, SECTOR.

AND SO WE'RE SEEING THIS RENEWED INTEREST IN THE TECHNOLOGY.

UH, NORMALLY I GET TO SAY THINGS, YOU KNOW, THAT NO ONE IN THE PRESS REALLY CARES ABOUT, UH, GRID ENHANCED TECHNOLOGIES.

YOU KNOW, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SOMETHING THAT ARE INTENDED TO CREATE A MUCH MORE EFFICIENT TRANSMISSION SYSTEM.

UH, AND YET, AS I WAS SCROLLING ON A SATURDAY MORNING IN THE NEW YORK TIMES, HERE WE ARE AN ARTICLE, THE US URGENTLY NEEDS A BIGGER GRID.

HERE'S A SOLUTION.

SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT IS NOT JUST FOR PEOPLE HERE IN THE ROOM.

UH, THIS IS THE TYPE OF STUFF THAT BIZARRELY YOU ARE GONNA HEAR YOUR GRANDMOTHER OR YOUR MOTHER TALK ABOUT.

AND SO I WAS GETTING A LOT OF PRESS, A LOT OF INTEREST.

SO I MENTIONED, UH, THE LIFTOFF REPORT IN THAT REPORT.

UM, THERE WERE 20 ADVANCED SOLUTIONS THAT WERE IDENTIFIED.

AND I'VE STARTED THE ONES THAT I WANT TO TALK ABOUT TODAY.

UM, I'M ACTUALLY GONNA TALK ABOUT HVDC.

SO EVERYTHING THAT IS ON THAT FAR LEFT SIDE THAT ARE REALLY IMPORTANT FOR THE BIG TRANSMISSION OF TAKING YOUR LARGE GENERATORS THAT ARE FAR AWAY AND BRINGING THEM TO YOUR LOAD CENTERS, THOSE ARE THE AREAS THAT GRID ENHANCED TECHNOLOGIES CAN HAVE THE MOST INFLUENCE.

IN ADDITION, UM, THAT LIFTOFF REPORT, IT IDENTIFIED THAT THESE ARE, THESE TECHNOLOGIES HAVE THE MO SOME OF THE MOST MAGNITUDE OF INFLUENCE, RIGHT? AND THAT MAKES SENSE.

UH, TRANSMISSION IS A MUCH, MUCH BIGGER SYSTEM.

SO ANY WAY OF SQUEEZING MORE OR MAXIMIZING THE BENEFIT, UH, FROM, UH, THE TRANSMISSION SYSTEM CAN DO A LOT IN TERMS OF RELIABILITY AND COST.

OKAY, SO I'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT WHY THERE'S INTEREST IN THIS.

I HAVEN'T EXACTLY SAID WHAT GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES ARE, AND THAT'S WHAT WE'RE GONNA TALK ABOUT.

SO THE GENERAL DEFINITION IS THAT THEY ARE, UH, HARDWARE OR SOFTWARE.

SO THEY COULD BE EITHER, EITHER OR, THAT CAN INCREASE THE CAPACITY, EFFICIENCY, RELIABILITY, OR SAFETY OF EXISTING TRANSMISSION LINES.

SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT BUILDING NEW LINES, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT MAXIMIZING OUR EXISTING LINES.

AND THE REASON THAT THERE IS SO MUCH EXCITEMENT IS THAT THIS CAN BE DEPLOYED A LOT QUICKER THAN BUILDING A NEW TRANSMISSION LINE, RIGHT? SO, UH, MANY PEOPLE IN THIS ROOM PROBABLY KNOW THAT A TRANSMISSION LINE TAKES AT LEAST 10 YEARS TO DESIGN, PERMIT, BUILD THE, THE NEEDS OF SOCIETY TO BUILD A LOT MORE GENERATION AND GET IT TO THE LOAD CENTERS.

UM, IT'S NOT WAITING 10 YEARS.

SO THESE ARE THINGS THAT WE CAN DO TO TODAY.

THAT'S THE BIGGEST ONE.

AS I MENTIONED, UH, THE DEPARTMENT OF ENERGY, THEY, AND THIS IS THIS, UM, LITTLE PICTURE IN GREEN.

THAT LIFTOFF REPORT IDENTIFIED THE AMOUNT OF SYSTEM INCREASE THAT YOU COULD GET.

AND IT IDENTIFIED REALLY FIVE FOUR IN FOR THAT DIAGRAM.

AND ONE BELOW REALLY HIGH PRIORITY, UH, TECHNOLOGIES, ADVANCED CONDUCTORS, DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS, TOPOLOGY OPTIMIZATION, ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS IN HVDC.

[00:10:01]

SO I'M GONNA GO THROUGH, AND I'M GONNA WALK THROUGH EACH OF THOSE TODAY, UH, BECAUSE THEY'RE THE ONES OF MOST IMPACT.

YEAH.

AND THE REASON WHY WE WANTED TO TALK ABOUT EACH OF THEM IS THAT THEY'RE NOT NECESSARILY INTERCHANGEABLE.

EACH TECHNOLOGY HAS A DIFFERENT BENEFIT, CAN SOLVE DIFFERENT SOLUTIONS.

SO I WOULD ENCOURAGE YOU DON'T THINK OF IT AS, OH, I COULD DO ADVANCED CONDUCTORS OR POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS IS OFTEN AN AND KIND OF SITUATION.

THERE'S OFTEN SYNERGIES THAT CAN BE, UM, FOUND BY USING BOTH.

UM, SO I'LL GO FROM LEFT TO RIGHT AND TALK ABOUT THESE.

UH, SO FIRST OF ALL, ADVANCED CONDUCTORS.

UH, THIS IS, UH, THE, PROBABLY THE SIMPLEST ONE.

IT IS ONE THAT HAS BEEN DEPLOYED HEAVILY ALREADY, UH, VERY WELL FAR ALONG IN TERMS OF, UH, R AND D, YOU KNOW, TECHNOLOGY READINESS.

THESE ARE CONDUCTORS THAT OPERATE AT HIGHER TEMPERATURES.

SO IF YOU THINK OF YOUR, YOUR TRANSMISSION LINES, THEY'RE USUALLY THE BIGGEST LIMITING THING IS THE THERMAL LIMITATIONS, HOW HOT THEY GET.

BY USING A DIFFERENT MATERIAL, YOU ALLOW MORE POWER TO FLOW, UH, WITHOUT GETTING IT TO SAG.

DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS, UH, THIS IS ABOUT UPDATING, AGAIN, THAT THERMAL RATING OF THE LINES, AND YOU'RE DOING THAT PROACTIVELY.

SO TRADITIONAL, UH, YOU KNOW, PLANNING TRADITIONAL OPERATIONS AS YOU ASSUME ONE STATIC RATING FOR THE LINE, IT'S BASED ON A, A RELATIVELY CONSERVATIVE KIND OF ASSESSMENT.

BUT REAL-TIME CONDITIONS COULD BE DIFFERENT.

DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS CONSIDER NOT JUST THE TEMPERATURE.

SO TODAY AN EXTREMELY HOT DAY, YOU'RE HITTING AT THE HIGHEST POINT, UM, BUT YOU'RE ALSO CONSIDERING THE AMBIENT CONDITION.

SO YOU THINK OF WIND, RIGHT? AND THAT WIND THAT'S COOLING, IT CAN INFLUENCE THAT LINE AS WELL.

POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS ARE LARGE DEVICES.

THEY ARE USED TO REROUTE A POWER.

SO IF YOU THINK OF SOMETHING WHERE YOU'RE OVERLOADING A LINE, YOU'RE, YOU KNOW, YOU'RE, AND THEN YOU HAVE TO CUT IT OFF.

YOU HAVE A PROTECTION SYSTEM THAT'S GONNA STOP YOUR POWER FROM FLOWING.

INSTEAD, YOU, YOU ADJUST THE IMPEDANCE AND ALLOWS IT TO REROUTE.

UH, FOR THOSE THAT ARE VERY TECHNICAL, YOU JUST HEARD THAT DEFINITION, IT SOUNDS A HECK OF A LOT LIKE A PHASE SHIFTING TRANSFORMER, RIGHT? OR PHASE ANGLE REGULATOR.

AND THAT WOULD BE RIGHT, UM, IF THEY'VE BEEN CALLED FACTS.

SO THE REASON WE LIKE TO CALL THEM ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS IS THIS IS A CONTINUUM OF TECHNOLOGIES THAT HAVE BEEN USED IN THE PAST, BUT ARE NOW WE'RE SEEING ADVANCES THAT CAN HELP, UM, MAKE THEM MORE DEPLOYABLE, A LITTLE MORE USEFUL.

THE, UH, FINAL ONE ON THIS SLIDE, UH, TRANSMISSION TOPOLOGY OPTIMIZATION.

AND THIS IS A SOFTWARE TECHNIQUE, UM, USED SPECIFICALLY BY OPERATORS, UH, TO IN REAL TIME RECONFIGURE THE NETWORK.

AND SO IT'S CONTINUOUSLY OPTIMIZING WITHIN THE ENERGY MANAGEMENT SYSTEM.

OKAY, SO LET'S GET JUMPED TO EACH OF THEM.

SO, ADVANCED CONDUCTORS, UH, AS I SAID, IT'S ABOUT CHANGING THE MATERIAL THAT YOU'RE USING.

YOU GET THIS HIGHER STRENGTH CRITICALLY, THE, UM, TEMPERATURE IS YOU SAVES LESS AT HIGH TEMPERATURES.

THE DOWNSIDE, UM, 'CAUSE THERE'S ALWAYS DOWNSIDES WITH EVERYTHING.

IT DOES TAKE MORE UNDER ICE LOADING.

PROBABLY NOT AN ISSUE HOPEFULLY IN TEXAS THOUGH.

I MEAN, YOU HAVE HAD ICE BEFORE, SO IT IS SOMETHING TO THINK ABOUT.

I COME FROM CANADA, SO I THINK ABOUT ICE LOADING A LOT.

UM, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT WE'VE SEEN, AS I SAID, IT HAS BEEN DEPLOYED AT SCALE.

UM, ALREADY OBSERVATIONS ARE WHEN THERE ARE FAILURES OF IT, IT TENDS TO BE DURING INSTALLATION, THEY ARE A LOT MORE FICKLE.

IT REQUIRES SOME TRAINING OF STAFF TO BE ABLE TO INSTALL IT EFFECTIVELY, UH, BECAUSE THERE HASN'T BEEN AS MUCH EXPERIENCE JUST GETTING TO STANDARDS ON IT, UNDERSTANDING HOW TO DO THE PROCUREMENT, UM, OF ADVANCED CONDUCTORS SPECIFICATIONS.

THAT IS STILL EMERGING, RIGHT? SO JUST GETTING THAT, UH, INSTITUTIONAL COMFORT WITH ADVANCED CONDUCTORS.

THE FINAL THING IS, SO WHY IS THERE EXCITEMENT? UH, THE CON THE LINE ITSELF, ADVANCED CONDUCTORS ARE MORE EXPENSIVE.

THERE'S, THERE'S NO WAY AROUND THAT.

UM, HOWEVER, YOU CAN USE THE SAME INFRASTRUCTURES, I THINK OF THE SAME TOWERS.

UH, SO YOU'RE NOT GOING THROUGH AND RE PERMITTING EVERYTHING, YOU KNOW, AND GOING THROUGH A WHOLE PROCESS.

YOU'RE NOT GOING THROUGH ALL OF THE COSTS OF, OF THE TOWERS, BUT THE LINE ITSELF IS MORE EXPENSIVE.

SO TOTAL, YOU KNOW, THAT'S KIND OF ONE OF THOSE THINGS THAT YOU THINK HAVE BEEN IN A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS, BUT VERY USEFUL TECHNOLOGY HERE.

AND

[00:15:01]

WE'VE SEEN IT USED.

UH, WE ACTUALLY RECENTLY PUBLISHED A, A REPORT THAT HAS A NUMBER OF USE CASES WITH ADVANCED CONDUCTORS.

UH, AND THAT'S FREE OF THE PUBLIC TO READ.

UH, HERE'S ONE EXAMPLE FROM THAT REPORT, UH, BY WAPA, WHAT THEY WERE, THEY WERE FINDING.

SO THEY WERE DEALING WITH A HYDROELECTRIC, UH, POWER PLANT AT SHASTA.

UM, AND THEY COULDN'T RUN IT FULL TILT.

THEY KNEW THAT IN ORDER TO RUN IT HIGHER, THEY NEEDED TO INCREASE THE AMPACITY OF THE SUBSTATIONS ON EITHER SIDE, AND THAT WOULD BE VERY, VERY USEFUL.

'CAUSE AGAIN, THEY'VE GOT GROWING DEMAND LIKE EVERYBODY ELSE IN THIS COUNTRY.

THEY CONSIDERED SOME CONVENTIONAL APPROACHES.

UM, BUT, UM, BUT THE IDEA FOR THE FIRST IDEA OF, YOU KNOW, INCREASING THE CONDUCTOR BUS, IT WOULD TAKE UP A LOT OF SPACE, AS YOU KNOW, WITH TRANSMISSION SPACE IS AT A PREMIUM, RIGHT? UH, SO INSTEAD THEY RE CONDUCTED, THEY CHANGED THE LINES.

THEY USED, IN THIS CASE AN ALUMINUM CONDUCTOR COMPOSITE CORE.

THERE ARE SEVERAL TYPES OF ADVANCED CONDUCTORS AND MORE COMING.

UM, THIS IS THE ONE THAT THEY CHOSE.

AND AS A RESULT, THEY WERE ABLE TO NOW RUN THIS HYDRO ELECTRIC STATION AT FULL OUTPUT.

AND ONE OF THE, THE NICEST THINGS IS THAT THEY DIDN'T HAVE TO TAKE AS LONG OF AN OUTAGE.

SO THIS IS VERY IMPORTANT.

THERE IS A HESITATION SOMETIMES ABOUT ADVANCED CONDUCTORS, BECAUSE OF COURSE, YOU ARE GONNA HAVE TO TAKE THE LINE OUT FOR SOME PERIOD OF TIME.

HOWEVER, RECONDUCTORING IS RELATIVELY FAST, SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE A VERY, VERY LONG OUTAGE.

IT COULD BE SCHEDULED DURING YOUR SHOULDER PERIODS.

OKAY, I'M GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS.

UM, AND I THINK I KIND OF TALKED ABOUT THIS ALREADY, BUT TRADITIONAL RATINGS, YOU HAVE ONE NUMBER FOR THE SEASON AM AND ADJUSTED RATINGS.

THIS IS WHAT WE CALL IT IN TEXAS.

THEY ARE OFTEN CALLED DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS.

SO I JUST WANNA MAKE SURE THAT THERE ISN'T CONFUSION.

YOU THINK OF THESE KIND OF, UH, KIND OF FLOW OF THINGS.

YOU A A R OR AMBIENT ADJUSTED RATINGS, WHICH IS NOW PROBABLY THE INDUSTRY NORM.

UM, THEY GO UP AND DOWN EVERY HOUR.

IT'S JUST BASED ON TEMPERATURE.

DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS ADJUST MUCH MORE QUICKLY.

AND THEY'RE ALSO BASED ON WIND SPEED.

SO NOT JUST THE AIR TEMPERATURE.

WHY IS THIS BENEFICIAL? WHEN YOU CONSIDER WIND SPEED, THE WIND NATURALLY COOLS THE LINE.

SO NOW YOU CAN ACTUALLY GET A LITTLE BIT MORE DURING SOME PERIODS OF TIME.

COINCIDENTALLY, THAT'S OFTEN WHEN THE WIND IS BLOWING REALLY HIGH AND YOU'VE GOT A LOT OF RENEWABLES.

SO THERE IS SOME BENEFIT HERE.

UH, AGAIN, WHY, WHY HESITATION? WHY NOT, WHY HASN'T EVERYONE JUST JUMPED TO THE DYNAMIC LINE RATING RATHER THAN USING AMBIENT ADJUSTED RATINGS OR SEASONAL RATINGS? UM, THEY ARE CHANGING, RIGHT? AS SOMETIMES THE DYNAMIC LINE RATING MIGHT BE LOWER THAN WHAT YOUR, UH, SEASONAL RATING IS.

THIS IS ACTUALLY A VERY GOOD THING THAT WHILE YOU MIGHT NOT BE ABLE TO GET AS MUCH OUTPUT, IT DOES INCREASE THE SAFETY OF THE LINE AND INCREASES THE LIFETIME OF THE LINE.

SO THERE ARE REALLY GOOD BENEFITS OF BEING ABLE TO ADJUST, AS I SAID.

UM, IN THIS CASE, UH, THERE, THIS HAS REALLY BEEN JUST ABOUT PILOT PROJECTS.

UH, FOR, FOR RIGHT NOW, UM, THERE HAVE BEEN MANY PILOT PROJECTS IN, IN THE US.

UH, THEY HAVE GIVEN US EXPERIENCE ON INSTALLATION MAINTENANCE, UM, AS WELL.

AND OVER THE LAST YEAR, WE'VE BEEN SEEING THE START TO MOVE FROM PILOT STAGE TO FULL SCALE DEPLOYMENTS.

AND YOU'VE PROBABLY HEARD SOME OF THIS IN THE PRESS.

UH, YOU HEAR OF THINGS LIKE, UH, GEL WITH, UH, GRE THAT THEY RECENTLY COMPLETED, UH, DEPLOYMENTS.

YOU HEAR ABOUT THIS IN THE US UM, OR IN, SORRY, IN EUROPE AS WELL.

AND I'VE GOT SOME EXAMPLES IN EUROPE, UH, AS WELL AS OTHERS HERE IN THE US.

SO PPL, UH, NATIONAL GRID.

UH, SO THIS IS ALSO A, A VERY INTERESTING TECHNOLOGY, AGAIN, THAT HAS HELD PEOPLE BACK, YOU KNOW, AND SO I'M, I'M TRYING TO ANTICIPATE SOME OF THE QUESTIONS THAT YOU MIGHT HAVE.

THESE ARE QUESTIONS THAT WE HAVE HEARD, UH, FROM UTILITIES AT EPRI.

UH, SO FIRST OF ALL, WHAT DO, HOW DO I ACQUIRE THIS? WHAT ARE THE STANDARDS? UH, HOW DO I KNOW THE UNCERTAINTY? WHAT DO I NEED TO DO? SO, UH, BECAUSE I'VE BEEN IN PILOT STAGE FOR SO LONG, UH, AND HAVING GONE TO THAT WIDE SCALE, IT CAN BE CHALLENGING TO HAVE ENOUGH EXPERIENCE TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THAT.

HOW DO I OPERATE IT? HOW DOES THIS INTEGRATE INTO LONG-TERM PLANNING? SHOULD IT INTEGRATE

[00:20:01]

INTO LONG-TERM PLANNING? UM, HOW DO I CONSIDER THAT IN OPERATIONS? IT IS, OF COURSE, BECAUSE YOU'RE CHANGING EVERY 15 MINUTES, A LITTLE BIT MORE COMPLEX, A LITTLE BIT COMPUTATIONALLY CUMBERSOME COMPARED TO JUST USING A STATIC WRITING.

SO HAVING TRAINING FOR OPERATORS IS HELPFUL, AN UNDERSTANDING OF THE RISKS ASSOCIATED WITH THIS.

UM, AND THEN OF COURSE, HOW DO I MAINTAIN IT? AND THIS, YOU KNOW, THIS ISN'T UNIQUE NECESSARILY TO DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS.

THIS IS SOMETHING THAT HAPPENS WITH EVERY EMERGING TECHNOLOGY, IS IT TAKES SOME EXPERIENCE TO KNOW EXACTLY HOW TO MAINTAIN IT AND TO HAVE SOME PRACTICE.

THIRD TECHNOLOGY THAT I WANTED TO TALK ABOUT, ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS.

AND AGAIN, IF YOU ARE, YOU KNOW, I, I'M GONNA SAY I'M AN OLD PERSON, BUT IF YOU'VE BEEN DOING THIS FOR A LONG WHILE, YOU'VE HEARD DIFFERENT NAMES FOR THESE FACE SHIFTING TRANSFORMERS FACTS, UM, EVEN HBDC IS A, IS CONSIDERED A TYPE OF POWER FLOW CONTROL.

AND ALL OF THESE ARE INTENDED TO REDIRECT YOUR FLOW.

WHAT ARE ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS? THESE ARE A LITTLE DIFFERENT.

THE TRADITIONAL TYPES OF FACE POWER FLOW CONTROL, IT'S USING A MECHANICAL PROCESS.

IF YOU ARE SITTING IN A CONTROL ROOM, YOU WOULD HEAR AN OPERATOR TALKING ABOUT TAPPING.

THEY WOULD TAP THAT, UM, THE FACE SHIFTING TRANSFORMER, AND THEY COULD ONLY TAP IT SO MANY TIMES, THINK OF ANY KIND OF MACHINE, THE MORE YOU TAP, THE MORE MOVES THAT YOU MAKE FROM HOUR TO HOUR, DAY BY DAY, THE MORE LIKELY IT IS TO BREAK THIS OVERCOMES THIS.

'CAUSE NOW WE'RE USING POWER ELECTRONICS INSTEAD.

NOT ONLY DOES IT, UM, ALLOW YOU TO MOVE, UH, MOVE IN EXCHANGES MORE OFTEN, BUT YOU ALSO ARE NOT STUCK ON, YOU KNOW, JUST A FEW SETTINGS.

BUT YOU CAN FLOW AND BE A LITTLE BIT MORE PRECISE.

SO HUGE BENEFIT, UM, IN USING ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS COMPARED TO YOUR, UH, TRADITIONAL POWER FLOW CONTROL.

UH, SOME OF THE THINGS THAT ARE ALSO JUST INCREDIBLY NEAT ABOUT, UM, THIS TECHNOLOGY IS THAT IT'S MODULAR AND SCALABLE.

SO YOU AREN'T STUCK WITH ONE.

YOU CAN MOVE IT AROUND AS YOU DEAL WITH THE SOLUTION.

UM, YOU ALSO, AGAIN, WE'RE TALKING ABOUT DEPLOYING QUICKLY.

UH, A HUGE BENEFIT OF ADVANCED POWER FLOAT CONTROLLERS.

AND WE SAW THIS HERE IN, IN CENTRAL HUDSON, UH, WAS THAT ONE OF THE REASONS THAT THEY LOOK TO INSTALL THIS IS JUST TO GET OVER SOME OF THE SUPPLY CHAIN CHALLENGES WITH THE TRADITIONAL PHASE SHIFTING TRANSFORMER.

SO THERE ARE, UH, VERY REAL SUPPLY CHAIN CHALLENGES WITH POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS.

UH, THESE ARE HIGHLY SPECIALIZED DEVICES.

THEY ARE PRICEY ON WHAT, UH, YOU KNOW, IF YOU LOOK AT THEM AT AN INDIVIDUAL LEVEL.

UH, IN CENTRAL HUDSON, THEY WORKED WITH THE NEW YORK ISO TO, UM, COME TO THIS SOLUTION.

THEY INSTALLED 15 UNITS, UH, OF ADVANCED POWER FLOW CONTROLLERS.

UH, AND WHAT, AND THAT WAS ONLY LAST YEAR.

SO I DON'T HAVE QUANTIFIED DATA ON THE IMPROVEMENTS TO THE FLOW, BUT WE HAVE SPOKEN AT LENGTH WITH CENTRAL HUDSON AND THEY SAID THAT THEY SAW AN IMMEDIATE IMPACT TO THE FLOW OF THE LINE.

UM, AND THE INTENT HERE IS THEY'RE LOOKING TO IMPROVE, UM, THE TRANSFER CAPABILITY BY ABOUT 185 MEGAWATTS.

SO THAT IS A PRETTY SIGNIFICANT, UH, UH, AMOUNT, UM, ESPECIALLY IN AN AREA LIKE CENTRAL HUDSON, UH, A SMALLER JURISDICTION.

OKAY, SO TRANSMISSION TOPOLOGY OPTIMIZATION IS SOFTWARE.

SO WE'VE KIND OF GONE THROUGH SOME KIND OF MORE HARDWARE YOU CAN GET YOUR HEAD AROUND IT TO, UH, A SOFTWARE SOLUTION.

AND THIS ONE, I I'M TAKING A, AN APPLICATION IN MISO.

IT IS VERY MUCH SOMETHING THAT A SYSTEM OPERATOR CAN DO.

THE, UM, IT IS USED AGAIN FOR DEALING WITH CONGESTION IN PARTICULAR.

SO YOU HAVE THIS REAL TIME CONGESTION AND, UM, WHAT SYSTEM OPERATORS TEND TO DO IS WHEN THEY'RE DEALING WITH THIS, THEY WILL MANUALLY CHOOSE TO SWITCH, UM, LINES IN AND OUT.

ALL RIGHT? THERE'S A BENEFIT IN DOING THIS USING AN OPTIMIZATION ENGINE RATHER THAN HUMAN INTERVENTION.

AND THAT'S REALLY WHAT TRANSMISSION TOPOLOGY OPTIMIZATION IS ABOUT.

UM, WHERE IT HAS SOME LIMITATIONS.

I PUT THIS ON THE SLIDE, UM, IN MI, IN MISO, YOU KNOW, 'CAUSE THIS IS, UH, COMPLEX.

UH, AND IT CAN SOLVE ON, UM, SOME RELIABILITY IMPACTS.

IT DOESN'T CONSIDER EVERYTHING NECESSARILY.

THEY'VE CHOSEN NOT TO APPLY IT WHEN THERE ARE STABILITY IMPACTS WITH DIFFERENT TYPES OF TRANSMISSION LIMITATIONS.

UM, AND THEY HAVE HAD TO WORK VERY CLOSELY WITH THEIR MARKET PARTICIPANTS

[00:25:01]

TO IDENTIFY WHEN TO DO THIS.

UH, ANYTIME YOU ARE DOING ANY KIND OF SWITCHING THIS, THIS CHANGES YOUR LMP PRICES.

SO THAT NODAL PRICING IS REALLY IMPORTANT AND YOU WANNA MAKE SURE THAT IT IS IN SOME WAY PREDICTABLE.

ALL RIGHT.

HBDC, UH, AT A GLANCE, THIS IS A VERY OLD TECHNOLOGY.

UH, IT'S BEEN IN USE SINCE 1954 AND IT'S USED ESPECIALLY FOR LONG DISTANCE, UH, UM, DELIVERY.

UH, A GREAT EXAMPLE IS IN QUEBEC, RIGHT? THEY USE HVDC BECAUSE THEY'VE GOT HYDROELECTRIC STATIONS UP IN VERY, VERY FAR NORTH.

THEY HAVE A LOW CENTER IN THE VARIOUS SOUTH.

SO YOU THINK OF THAT AS THE TRADITIONAL USE OF IT.

BUT NOW AS YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE MORE RENEWABLES, UM, OFFSHORE WIND AS WELL, THAT IS DISTANT FROM YOUR LOAD CENTER, UH, YOU CAN, UH, CONSIDER HVDC.

THAT SAID, OKAY, SO SINCE 2013 THERE HAVE BEEN SEVEN NEW HVDC, UM, LINES COMMISSIONED.

ONLY TWO OF THEM HAVE BEEN HERE IN THE US SO IT ISN'T USED, YOU KNOW, AT A TON.

UH, IT IS COSTLY, IT IS PARTICULARLY IS COSTLY WHEN YOU LOOK AT THE CONVERSION FROM THAT HBDC TO AC.

UH, SO THOSE ARE THE THINGS THAT YOU WANNA CONSIDER ABOUT IS HOW TO DEAL WITH MULTI TERMINAL HBDC, UM, TRYING TO FIGURE OUT HOW THAT CAN WORK.

SWITCHING FROM, ESPECIALLY IN, IN THIS CASE, YOU CAN USE MULTI TERMINAL FOR OFFSHORE BACK, LIKE TO ONSHORE KIND OF WIND APPLICATIONS.

UH, THAT SAID, THERE ARE 14 PROJECTS THAT HAVE BEEN IDENTIFIED AS READY TO GO IN THE US SO THERE IS A RENEWED INTEREST THAT COULD CERTAINLY PERHAPS HELP IN TERMS OF VENDOR CAPACITY, UM, AND THE DEVELOPMENT OF STANDARDS AND, UH, IN THE APPENDIX.

I WILL NOTE THAT EPRI HAS DONE SOME WORK ON TRYING TO GET TO SOME STANDARDS, AND WE'VE MADE THOSE REPORTS PUBLIC.

WE WORKED WITH SVP ON THAT.

SO VERY IMPORTANT THAT AS WE'RE GETTING THESE TECHNOLOGIES, AS COMPANIES ARE GETTING FAMILIAR WITH THEM, USING THEM, AND WE SHARE THOSE LEARNINGS.

UH, I'M GONNA STOP AT THIS SLIDE.

THIS IS MY LAST ONE.

UH, SOME THINGS THAT I'LL LEAVE TO ALL OF YOU TO THINK ABOUT ON HOW TO INCORPORATE GRID ENHANCING TECHNOLOGIES INTO YOUR SYSTEMS. AND, UH, PARTICULARLY IF YOU'RE THINKING OF BEING A SYSTEM OPERATOR, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHICH TECHNOLOGY TESTING VALIDATION IS CRITICAL.

YOU NEED TO KNOW WHAT YOU'RE GOING TO GET.

SOME OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES DO DIFFERENT THINGS, DO BETTER IN CER CERTAIN CIRCUMSTANCES.

SO UNDERSTANDING THAT MAKING SURE IT'S PREDICTABLE IS ESSENTIAL FOR YOUR OPERATORS.

FINALLY, OR SECONDLY, SPECIFYING, ACQUIRING, KNOWING HOW TO DO THIS, HAVING A PLAYBOOK SO THAT WE'RE NOT ALL REINVENTING THE WHEEL EACH TIME.

WE'VE SEEN THAT, THAT CAN BE EXTREMELY HELPFUL.

AGAIN, AS I TALKED ABOUT LEARNING IS AND SHARING, UH, REALLY IMPORTANT WITH EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, ALMOST ALL OF THESE TECHNOLOGIES, UH, WITH THE EXCEPTION OF PERHAPS ADVANCED CONDUCTORS, REALLY AFFECT YOUR REAL TIME PROCESSES.

I WILL JUST SAY FROM MY PERSONAL EXPERIENCE, I WORKED AS A SYSTEM OPERATOR.

I SPENT A LOT OF TIME DEALING WITH REAL TIME PROCESSES.

THEY'RE NOT SOMETHING THAT HAPPENED OVERNIGHT, RIGHT? AND MAKING SURE THAT THEY'RE RIGHT, THAT THEY'VE BEEN TESTED, THAT YOUR OPERATORS ARE TRAINED TO USE THESE TOOLS AND TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY DON'T WORK, WHAT TO DO AS WELL.

UM, REALLY IMPORTANT.

AND THAT IS SOMETHING THAT HAS, UM, NOT BEEN DONE YET FOR THESE TECHNOLOGIES.

UM, AT A GREAT, UH, LENGTH.

OF COURSE, UH, ESSENTIAL, ESSENTIAL IS IN A SYSTEM OPERATOR KIND OF WORLD, IS TO THINK THROUGH THAT MARKET DESIGN.

THINK ABOUT THE POLICIES THAT YOU HAVE.

I WOULD SUGGEST THAT THIS IS NOT ONLY JUST A REAL TIME PROBLEM, BUT A LONG-TERM PROBLEM AS WELL, RIGHT? SO THINK THROUGH WHAT IS NEEDED TO INCENTIVIZE, UH, THESE TECHNOLOGIES.

UH, MAKE SURE THAT YOUR POLICIES AND YOUR MARKET ARE ALIGNED.

AND ONCE YOU DO THIS, I THINK IT IS ALSO JUST IMPORTANT TO KEEP MONITORING.

ONE OF THE QUESTIONS THAT, UM, EXIST, UH, I THINK ESPECIALLY WITH DYNAMIC LINE RATINGS, IS, ARE THEY APPROPRIATE TO USE FOR PLANNING? WHAT NUMBER WOULD YOU USE WHEN SOMETHING IS VARYING IN REAL TIME? UM, SO THIS IS SOMETHING THAT YOU CAN DO WHILE YOU'VE DEPLOYED AS YOU'RE LEARNING, UH, TO LOOK AT.

SO FIVE KIND OF KEY STEPS TO THINK THROUGH DURING DEPLOYMENTS, UH, REGARDLESS OF THE TECHNOLOGY.

I'LL PAUSE HERE.

THANK YOU, ANNA.

ANY QUESTIONS? CARLOS? THANK YOU.

THIS IS REALLY VERY INTERESTING.

UM, ON HVDC,

[00:30:01]

AS YOU SAID, IT'S BEEN THERE FOR A LONG TIME, BUT NOT, NOT REALLY USED A LOT.

UM, WHAT MINIMUM DISTANCE DO YOU THINK SHOULD BE THE PARAMETER TO, TO USE THAT? SO WE'VE SEEN THAT HVDC CAN EVEN HAVE SOME BENEFITS ON SMALL, LIKE SMALLER SCALE AS WELL, EVEN ON DISTRIBUTION, UM, JUST TO GET A LITTLE HIGHER.

SO I WOULDN'T PUT LIKE A SINGLE NUMBER TO SAY.

I THINK THAT'S REALLY ABOUT DOING SOME ANALYSIS AND DOING A COST BENEFIT ANALYSIS, PARTICULARLY LOOKING AT THE COST OF THOSE TERMINALS.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANNA? THANK YOU SO MUCH.

UH, I WOULD COMMEND TO THE COMMITTEE, THE APPENDIX, WHICH HAS GOT SOME VERY INTERESTING SLIDES IN IT, UM, THAT GO INTO ANOTHER LEVEL OF DETAIL ABOUT EACH OF THE FOUR TECH FIVE TECHNOLOGIES THAT ANNA HAS OUTLINED.

UH, THERE'S, THERE'S, THERE'S SOME REALLY GOOD STUFF IN THERE, SO THANKS AGAIN AND, UH, LET ME ASK JP TO TAKE THE FLOOR AND, AND WE'LL START WITH THE PROJECT

[5.1 Projects and Technology Update]

AND TECHNOLOGY UPDATE ITEM 5.1.

GOOD MORNING.

ALL RIGHT, SO GENERALLY WE ARE ON TRACK, SO NO HIGH LEVEL UPDATES.

UM, ONE MY SLIDES, I TALK ABOUT A RETAIL PROJECT CALLED TX SET.

UM, OKAY, SO THIS IS MY NORMAL, UH, PROJECT UPDATE.

AND UM, UM, AS YOU CAN SEE, WE ARE RUNNING AROUND THE 60 ACTIVE PROJECT MARK, BUT THAT'S LIKE A NUMBER, A STATIC NUMBER.

BUT BEHIND THEM, THE DYNAMICS IS THAT WE HAVE STARTED 11 PROJECTS AND CLOSED 11 NINE PROJECTS.

SO, SO YOU CAN SEE THE DYNAMICS BEHIND THAT.

UH, WE HAVE ONE PROJECT RELATED TO CRR ON HOLD, AND THAT'S WHY THE NUMBERS DON'T EXACTLY ADD UP.

UH, AND IT'S JUST TO ALLOW THE VENDOR TO FOCUS ON RECENT PERFORMANCE ISSUES ON CRR.

SO WE PAUSE SOME OTHER PROJECT TO GIVE, UM, THE TIME TO THE VENDOR.

SO THIS IS OUR FORECAST FOR THE REST OF THE YEAR.

AND THIS HASN'T CHANGED SIGNIFICANTLY SINCE LAST TIME.

THE ONE THING WE ARE IMPROVING ON, UM, IS THE FORECAST THAT WE SEE OVER THE SUMMER HOLIDAY BREAK.

AND YOU CAN SEE THAT OUR FORECAST IS GOING THE WRONG DIRECTION THAN THE ACTUAL, BUT IT'S SOMETHING THAT, UM, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IT'S A LIMITED AMOUNT OF DATA OVER SUMMER VACATIONS THAT WE HAVE TO, UM, GO THE PAST TO LEARN HOW TO, UH, DO THAT.

AND THIS IS ALSO THE FIRST TIME THAT WE ARE DOING AND PRESENTING THIS KIND OF DATA, THE BOARD.

SO, SO IT'S A NEW EXPERIENCE FOR US.

UM, AND ON TOP OF THAT, WE ALSO ADDED NEW PROJECTS.

THERE IS A LAG TO GET THAT STARTED.

SO THERE'S A COMBINATION OF ALL THAT THAT ADDED TO THIS, BUT IT'S AN INTERESTING DATA POINT.

IT'S KIND OF OBVIOUS THAT THERE IS SOME GAP THERE.

I JUST CALL THIS OUT AND WE ARE WORKING ON IMPROVING THAT FORECASTING ASPECT OVER THE SUMMER HOLIDAYS.

BUT IN GENERAL, FORECASTING SEEMS TO FOLLOW THAT.

UM, UM, SO ON THE TECHNOLOGY SIDE, WE HAD A FEW RELEASES, UM, IN THIS CYCLE AND WE DELIVERED VARIOUS NPR R AS WELL AS WE PUT A SECOND LOAD FORECAST.

UH, THAT'S EXTERNAL TO US.

SO, UM, THAT'S SOMETHING, UH, NEW THAT'S ON, UH, ONE INTERESTING PROJECT TO NOTE IS THE RIO SINGLE MODEL BATTERY.

SO UNTIL THIS PROJECT, UH, WE WERE FORCING BATTERY OWNERS TO ENTER DATA AS BOTH A LOAD AND A GENERATOR BECAUSE THAT'S HOW WE APPROXIMATED IT, UM, OR TO FIT INTO OUR EXISTING PARADIGM.

SO THIS, AT LEAST FROM A MARKET PARTICIPANT PERSPECTIVE, ALLOWS IT TO TRULY MODEL IT AS A SINGLE DEVICE AND GET INPUT FROM THEM IN THAT FASHION.

BUT NOTE THAT INTERNALLY WITHIN OUR SYSTEMS, WE STILL MA UH, MODEL IT AS A LOAD AND A GENERATOR, AND THAT ISSUE WILL BE FIXED WITH RTC.

AND LASTLY, UM, I WANT TO TALK ABOUT THE, THIS RETAIL PROJECT THAT WILL GO LIVE LATER THIS YEAR IN NOVEMBER.

NOW, WE DON'T TALK ABOUT RETAIL PROJECTS MUCH HERE, GIVEN ALL THE ATTENTION WE HAVE TO RELIABILITY AND WHOLESALE.

UM, SO I THOUGHT THIS IS A PROJECT THAT I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT GIVEN THAT IT'S GOING LIVE THIS YEAR.

UM, THE COMPETITIVE

[00:35:01]

RETAILERS, UH, TDSP AND, UH, COMMUNICATES WITH EACH OTHER USING A FORMAT CALLED EDI, ELECTRONIC DATA EXCHANGE, UM, USES AND C STANDARD, UH, DETERMINED BY THE ACCREDITED STANDARDS COMMITTEE, A SC.

OKAY? SO A LOT OF STANDARDS BODY, BUT THE BOTTOM LINE IS THE WORKFLOWS THAT DEFINE THE RULE AND MESSAGES ARE ENCODED, ARE ENCODED IN A, ARE STANDARD CALLED TX SET, WHICH IS WHAT, THIS IS THE TEXAS STANDARD ELECTRONIC TRANSACTIONS.

AND THAT'S DEFINED IN OUR PROTOCOL.

SO WE ARE CURRENTLY OPERATING AT VERSION FOUR OF THIS PROTOCOL THAT WE'VE DEFINED IN 2012 AND WENT ONLINE 2012.

AND WE ARE UPGRADING TO A NEXT VERSION THAT IS TX AT FIVE IN NOVEMBER.

AND THIS RELEASE REQUIRES US TO CO COORDINATE BETWEEN 135 DIFFERENT COMPETITIVE RETAILERS, EIGHT TRANSMISSION D UH, DISTRIBUTION, UTILITIES, AND OF COURSE ERCOT TO SWITCH FROM THE TX AT FOUR TO THE TX AT FIVE PROTOCOL.

AND BEGINNING EARLY THIS MONTH, EIGHT SIX.

IN FACT, WE HAVE STARTED A MANDATORY, UM, MARKET TEST AND ENVIRONMENT WHERE EVERY LSC WITH CUSTOMERS PERFORM A SMALL TEST ON THIS UPGRADED STANDARD TO VERIFY THE SYSTEM INTEROPERABILITY AND BUSINESS KNOWLEDGE.

SO THIS, UH, PROJECT GOES LIVE IN THE SECOND WEEK OF NOVEMBER.

UM, AND, YOU KNOW, BECAUSE IT'S SO COMPLEX WITH SO MANY INTERACTIONS, I THOUGHT I'LL JUST HIGHLIGHT IT FOR THE BOARD TO KNOW, AND THAT'S REALLY MY TECHNOLOGY UPDATE.

UH, LET ME KNOW IF ANY QUESTION, AND JULIE, I KNOW YOU ARE ONLINE, I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT, UH, WE ARE NOT MISSING YOU OUT.

JULIE , THANK YOU.

YEAH, I'M, I'M HERE.

OKAY.

YES, I CAN HEAR YOU ALL.

THANK YOU.

OKAY, NOW

[5.2 Real-Time Co-Optimization Implementation Update]

ONTO RTC.

ALRIGHT.

ALRIGHT, SO IN THIS SLIDE, YOU KNOW, I ALWAYS TALKED ABOUT THE SCOPE OF RTC, RIGHT? THAT, UM, OUR, WHICH IS NOT JUST RTC, BUT ALSO THE COMBINED MODEL FOR BATTERIES AND I JUST TALKED ABOUT IN MY LAST, UM, UPDATE AS WELL AS THE STATE OF CHARGE MANAGEMENT.

SO WHILE WE REFER TO THIS PROJECT AS RTC, WE NEED TO REMEMBER THAT THIS IS RTC AND STATE OF CHARGE MANAGEMENT FOR BATTERIES AND SINGLE MODELING OF BATTERIES, RIGHT? AND THESE DELIVERABLES ARE NOT SEPARATE.

SO I CAN'T SEPARATE THE RTC PART FROM THIS PROJECT WITHOUT TAKING THE WHOLE THING WITH ME.

SO I JUST WANT US TO KEEP THAT IN OUR MIND.

UM, BECAUSE IT'S REALLY RTC PLUS BATTERIES PLUS SOC, THAT'S WHAT THIS PROJECT IS.

WE ARE CONTINUING OUR ENGAGEMENTS WITH THE MARKET PARTICIPANTS AND, UM, AS WE TARGET OUR DESIGN PHASE COMPLETE, UH, NO PARTICULAR UPDATES TO DRAW ON THIS SLIDE AT THIS POINT, UH, ON THE SPEND, WHILE WE ARE NOT SHOWING ANY SIGNIFICANT SPEND YET, WE ARE TICKING UP.

AND, UH, THIS AL ALREADY ABOUT 1.7 MILLION MORE THAN MY LAST UPDATE IN JUNE.

UM, AS I NOTED LAST TIME, WE ARE BUILDING A SERVERS WITH SOFTWARE IN OUR IT DATA CENTER AND THOSE COSTS HAVE NOT HIT THE PROJECT, BUT THEY ARE IN OUR FACILITIES AS WE BUILD IT.

AND, UM, MAYBE, UH, TOWARDS EARLY NEXT YEAR, THE PROJECT WILL INCUR THAT COST, BUT AT THE RATE WE ARE SPENDING, WE WILL BE TOWARDS, UH, 16 MILLION BY THE END OF THE YEAR.

UM, NOW FROM A DEPENDENCY PERSPECTIVE, WE HAVE, WE HAD THE REAL PROJECT THAT I JUST TALKED ABOUT IN MAP UPGRADE THAT, UH, UPDATE THAT, UH, WENT LIVE.

WE HAVE THE NPRR 1 0 5 8, WHICH RELATES TO RESOURCES OFFER MODERNIZATION, AND ONCE, AND THAT WILL GO LIVE LATER THIS WEEK.

BUT ONCE WE HAVE THOSE TWO PROJECTS OUTTA THE WAY, I REALLY DON'T HAVE ANY DEPENDENCY FOR THIS PROJECT TO ANYTHING ELSE.

OKAY? AND WE ARE MAKING GOOD PROGRESS WITHIN THE PROJECT ITSELF.

WE RECEIVE DELIVERABLES FROM ON, ON SIM ON THE DAY AHEAD, MARKET ON ON R, AND WE ARE LOOKING AT AN EARLY RELEASE OF SC SO THAT WE CAN TEST OUR INTEGRATION PIECES AND WE CONTINUE TO BE ON TRACK FOR A RELEASE OF SC IN MAY IN TIME FOR OUR, OUR MARK MARKET TRIALS MAR.

OKAY? SO WE WILL HAVE A RELEASE IN, UM, UH, MARCH AND WE WILL BE READY FOR, UH, MARKET TRIALS IN MAY.

SO WE'RE MAKING GOOD PROGRESS THERE.

AND, YOU KNOW, WE ARE STILL IN THE PLANNING PHASE, BUT NEXT TIME WE MEET WE WILL BE PAST PLANNING PHASE.

SO YOU'LL SEE ME MOVE

[00:40:01]

A LOT OF THE DATES IN TO REFLECT WHAT THAT IS.

AND, AND RIGHT NOW I HAVEN'T TOUCHED IT BECAUSE WE DON'T USUALLY OFFICIALLY PUBLISH THOSE DATES UNTIL WE CROSS THAT.

BUT I HAVE BEEN HINTING ALL THE TIME THAT WE WILL GO LIVE IN 25 AND WE WILL BE TALKING TO OUR MARKET PARTICIPANTS THAT BASED ON OUR PLANNING PHASE, THAT'S GONNA END VERY SOON.

WE ARE GOING TO GO LIVE IN 2025.

AND SO, SO HOPEFULLY THIS IS THE LAST TIME YOU SEE THESE SLIDES WITH 26 DATES.

NOW, MILESTONES THAT WE HAVE ACHIEVED THIS YEAR, UM, I THINK WE MET MOST OF OUR MILESTONE.

THERE'S ONE MILESTONE THAT WE HAVE MISSED, UH, AND THAT'S OUR FIRST MAJOR, UH, MILESTONE THAT WE MISSED.

AND THAT IS, UM, A STRETCH GOAL TARGET TO PUBLISH THE RELEASE DATE BY END OF JULY.

AND LAST BOARD MEETING I'D GIVEN AN INDICATION THAT WE ARE GONNA BE LIKELY GOING TO MISS THIS, BUT WE ARE STILL ON TRACK AND IN FACT AHEAD OF SCHEDULE FROM OUR TARGET GOAL OF SEPTEMBER 30.

SO, UM, I THINK I'VE COMMUNICATED TO MY TEAM, IT'S OKAY, WE HAVE MET OTHER STRATEGY TARGET, IT'S OKAY TO MISS SOME, BUT, UM, WE, WE SHOULD DO A GOOD JOB ON THAT.

SO, BUT JUST A HEADS UP THAT WE MISSED THIS GOAL.

NOW, UM, USUALLY I GIVE AN INDICATION ON FUTURE MILESTONES, BUT THIS TIME, BECAUSE I HAVEN'T CROSSED MY GATE TO EXECUTION, I DON'T HAVE TOO MANY MILESTONES TO OFFICIALLY SHOW.

UM, BUT OBVIOUSLY THERE'S A LOT OF WORK GOING ON BETWEEN NOW TO THE GATE TO EXECUTION AND WE ARE ON TRACK FOR THOSE COUPLE OF, UH, UH, STRETCH GOALS THAT, UH, I JUST WANT TO INDICATE THAT WE ARE OFFICIALLY MET THE STRETCH GOAL THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE BOARD MEETING.

SO JUST, JUST ACKNOWLEDGING THAT WE MET THIS GOAL TO PUBLISH EXTERNAL SPECIFICATIONS, UM, AND IT'S NOT JUST PUBLISHING EXTERNAL SPECIFICATION, BUT IT'S ALSO ENGAGEMENT WITH THE MARKET PARTICIPANTS, COMMUNICATING WITH THEM WHAT THE SPECIFICATIONS ARE ABOUT, GETTING THE FEEDBACK FROM THEM AND HAVING A GOOD ENGAGED DISCUSSION BOTH FROM THE IT AND BUSINESS SIDE.

SO, SO WE FEEL VERY GOOD ABOUT THIS, UH, GOAL.

UM, AND NOT JUST THAT WE DID A FIRE AND FORGET FOR THESE GOALS.

SO GOOD FEEDBACK FROM EVERYBODY.

THE FEEDBACK YOU'VE GOTTEN FROM THE EXTERNAL MARKET PARTICIPANTS, DOES IT INDICATE THAT THEY'RE ON TRACK TO MAKE THE CHANGES THEY NEED TO SO FAR BE READY TO INFLUENCE SO FAR THAT, SO FAR THAT HAS BEEN THE CASE AND, AND NOT JUST THE MARKET PARTICIPANTS, WE ARE ALSO TALKING TO THEIR VENDORS AS WELL SO THAT WE CAN TALK DIRECTLY TO THEM AND ANSWER QUESTIONS AS WELL.

OKAY? SO, SO FAR IT HAS BEEN GOOD.

UM, AND THIS IS DETAILS ABOUT THE TARGET THAT WE MISSED, THE STRETCH TARGET, BUT WE ARE STILL AHEAD OF THE, UM, REGULAR SCHEDULE NINE 30 TARGET AND UM, WE HOPE TO MAKE THAT END OF THIS MONTH OR MAYBE FIRST WEEK OF SEPTEMBER, SOME TIMELINE LIKE THAT.

SO STILL AHEAD OF SCHEDULE.

UM, NOW ONE THING I WANT TO TALK ABOUT IS, YOU KNOW, WE, THERE'S SOME FEEDBACK THAT, YOU KNOW, WE ARE HEARING ABOUT INPUTS FROM THE IMM ABOUT CHANGES IN THE AS ANCILLARY SERVICE SUBSTITUTABILITY, RIGHT? AND I EVEN HEARD THAT MAYBE WE SHOULD PAUSE IT UNTIL PAUSE THE PROJECT UNTIL THIS IS ADDRESSED.

AND I KNOW WE'LL TALK ABOUT THE REQUIREMENTS SIDE OF IT IN R AND M SINCE THAT'S THE APPROPRIATE AVENUE FOR THAT DISCUSSION.

BUT HERE IN TECHNOLOGY, I WANT TO AT LEAST GIVE THE PROJECT PERSPECTIVE OF THAT, RIGHT? THAT HOW WE GO THROUGH THE VARIOUS SCENARIO.

NOW, THE FIRST SCENARIO IS, YOU KNOW, YOU CONTINUE THE IMPLEMENTATION AS THE PROJECT IS GOING AND WE IMPLEMENTED CHANGES AND THERE MAY BE OTHER CHANGES, NOT JUST THIS, RIGHT? ANY OTHER CHANGES THAT COME THROUGH, WE SHOULD IMPLEMENT IT USING OUR NORMAL CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS, WHICH IS THROUGH NPRS TO TACK TO THE STAKEHOLDER DISCUSSIONS.

UM, AFTER ALL, WE HAVE MADE SO MANY CHANGES SINCE NOTRE GO LIVE, RIGHT? AND WITH THIS APPROACH, WE WILL GAIN THE FULL BENEFIT THAT THE PROJECT HAS ADVERTISED, THAT WE WILL HAVE $1.6 BILLION OF EFFICIENCY.

AND THIS IS 1.6 BILLION FROM 2018.

SO THAT'S EVEN MORE, RIGHT? BUT I'LL STAY WITH THE 1.6 BILLION, NOT CONSIDERING THE TIME VALUE OF MONEY, AT LEAST $1.6 BILLION.

SO WE WILL HAVE THAT ANNUAL EFFICIENCY AND WE ARE SAYING AT THIS POINT THAT WE WILL BE INTEND TO GO LIVE IN 2025.

UM, AND AND ALSO ONE SIGN OF IT IS WE ARE SAYING WE ARE GETTING READY FOR MARKET TRIALS IN MAY OF 2025, WHICH MEANS THAT REALLY TO BE IN MARKET TRIALS, WE HAVE DEVELOPED OUR MARKET SYSTEM SO THAT MARKET PARTICIPANTS CAN PARTICIPATE IN AN ENVIRONMENT, RIGHT?

[00:45:01]

SO WE ARE SO FAR AHEAD IN THE PROJECT.

UM, SO THAT'S ONE SCENARIO.

THE OTHER SCENARIO, ESPECIALLY WHEN I HEAR THIS PASSWORD IS OKAY, WE CAN PAUSE UNTIL WE DO THE SUBSTITUTABILITY, RIGHT? AND THIS IS ASSUMING OF COURSE WE ENTERTAIN THIS PROPOSAL AND WE GO DOWN THAT PATH.

BUT IF YOU GO DOWN THAT PATH, WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? OKAY? IT COMPLETELY DISRUPTS THE MOMENTUM OF THE PROJECT WE HAVE.

AND I'VE COME HERE EVERY TWO MONTHS TALKING ABOUT WHAT GREAT PROGRESS WE HAVE MADE, HOW AHEAD OF SCHEDULE WE ARE ALMOST A YEAR, AND WE WILL COMPLETELY DISRUPT THAT MOMENTUM.

IN ADDITION, IT ALSO BRINGS INTO PLAY THE METHODOLOGY IN THE DAY AHEAD MARKET BECAUSE THAT'S THE SAME THING WE USE IN DAY AHEAD MARKET.

SO NOW FROM A SCOPE PERSPECTIVE, WE ARE NOT JUST TALKING ABOUT REAL TIME, BUT WE'RE ALSO BRINGING IN THEIR HEAD MARKET.

SO THAT'S A MAJOR SCOPE THAT WE ARE ADDING TO THE REAL TIME MARKET AND, AND ALL THAT DISCUSSIONS THROUGH THAT STAKEHOLDER PROCESS, THEN NOW WE HAVE TO GO BACK AND REVISIT OUR DESIGN BECAUSE NOW WE, TO GO BACK TO DESIGN AND PLANNING TO ACCOUNT FOR THAT, THAT'S A LOT OF DELAY.

AND I ALSO MENTIONED THAT THIS PROJECT, WHILE WE CALL IT RTC, IT'S NOT JUST RTC, IT'S RTC, IT'S COMBINED MODEL, WHICH WE NEED TO DO.

WE HAVE SO MANY BATTERIES COMING ON AND THE STATE OF CHARGE MANAGEMENT, ALL THAT, THE ENTIRE THING GETS DELAYED.

SO, AND, AND OF COURSE WE WILL LOSE THIS 4 BILLION AS WELL, 4.8 BILLION.

SO THE BEST OPTION IN MY OPINION IS THAT WE LET THIS PROJECT CONTINUE TILL 2025, IT'S GOING WELL.

AND THEN WE FOLLOW UP WITH SUBSTANTIAL CHANGES, UM, OVER RTC USING REGULAR STAKEHOLDER PROCESS.

THAT'S MY UPDATE.

UM, UM, QUESTION.

LEMME MAKE A COUPLE OF SUGGESTIONS ON THIS SLIDE.

UM, FIRST OF ALL, I, I THINK YOU SHOULD UPDATE THE, UM, BENEFIT NUMBERS IN SCENARIO ONE.

THEY DON'T HAVE TO BE EXACT, BUT AS YOU POINTED OUT, THESE ARE ESTIMATES FROM 2018.

UM, AND, AND WE ALL KNOW THAT THERE HAS BEEN INFLATION ON THESE NUMBERS THAT WOULD MAKE IT, THOSE NUMBERS SUBSTANTIALLY LARGER THAN 1.6.

SO I WOULD SUGGEST THAT YOU TAKE A A STAB AT LEAST AT, AT ADDING THAT IN.

I ALSO THINK THAT SCENARIO TWO COMES WITH A SIGNIFICANT ADDITIONAL EXPENSE TO BOTH ERCOT AND MARKET PARTICIPANTS.

AND WHILE IT'S HARD TO ESTIMATE THAT, I THINK YOU SHOULD TAKE A STAB AT THAT AS WELL, WHICH WILL MAKE THAT ZERO NUMBER ACTUALLY A NEGATIVE NUMBER, I SUSPECT IN SCENARIO TWO.

SO, I MEAN, I THINK THAT THE ARGUMENT YOU'RE MAKING IS COMPELLING FOR THIS.

I THINK IT'S ACTUALLY MORE COMPELLING THAN YOU'RE REALLY MAKING IT.

YEAH.

YEAH.

THANK YOU JOHN.

AND I'LL SAY THIS IS A MINIMUM, RIGHT? THIS, THIS IS EVERYTHING MORE THAN THIS.

SO YEAH, I JUST WANNA ADD, UH, SOMETHING TO THIS.

SO AT THIS STAGE IN THE PROCESS, WE HAVE A HIGH LEVEL PERSPECTIVE ON KIND OF WHAT ARE SOME OF THE POTENTIAL, UM, EXPLORATION ISSUES RELATED TO THE RTC DESIGN.

THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THEM.

ONE OF THEM IS MORE SUBSTANTIAL AS JP HAS LAID OUT.

ANOTHER ONE, UH, SEEMS TO BE LESS INVASIVE IN TERMS OF THE CHANGES TO THE UNDERLYING DESIGN AND TECHNOLOGY.

WHAT I WANNA EMPHASIZE IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'VE GOT A ROBUST PROJECT MANAGEMENT AND CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS.

WE NEED TO LEVERAGE THAT AS WE GO FORWARD TO EVALUATE ANY INPUTS.

AT THIS STAGE IN THE GAME, WE ARE AT A POINT IN TIME WHERE AS HE'S LAID OUT, WE ARE GETTING CLOSE TO MARKET TRIALS.

SO WE'RE GETTING CLOSE TO THE END OF THE DEVELOPMENT CYCLE AND GETTING READY TO ACTUALLY GO INTO THE, THAT, THAT LAST STAGE OF, UH, OF TESTING.

SO WE NEED TO LEVERAGE THAT CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS.

THAT'S SOMETHING THAT IS, UH, CRITICAL FOR, UH, ROBUST, UH, FIDUCIARY MANAGEMENT OF ANY PROJECT.

WE NEED TO LEVERAGE THAT HERE LIKE WE WOULD ANYWHERE ELSE, AS ANY OTHER ENTITY WOULD AS WELL.

AND THERE ARE OPTIONS FOR HOW WE CAN INCORPORATE CHANGES BEFORE AND AFTER.

AND SO WE JUST NEED TO CONSIDER THE DEGREE TO WHAT THOSE CHANGES ARE AND, UM, AND THEN CONSIDER WHETHER OR NOT WHAT THE RIGHT TIMING IS TO IMPLEMENT THOSE CHANGES.

IT'S A LITTLE UNFORTUNATE THAT THE SEQUENCE OF THE MEETINGS, THE R AND M MEETING WILL GO INTO A LITTLE MORE SUBSTANCE AS TO WHAT SOME OF THESE UNDERLYING ISSUES ARE.

BUT THE MAIN POINT IN THIS MEETING IS THAT WE HAVE A PROJECT AND CHANGE MANAGEMENT PROCESS THAT WE ARE GOING TO FOLLOW.

THAT PROCESS, I THINK HAS SERVED THE, UM, MARKET WELL AND HAS PROTECTED THE INVESTMENTS AND THE BUDGETS OF THESE PROJECTS.

AND WE NEED TO LEVERAGE THAT IN ANY CIRCUMSTANCE IRRESPECTIVE OF WHERE THE NEW INPUTS MAY COME IN FOR PROPOSED CHANGES.

I, I WOULD JUST ADD, ADD TO THAT, THAT HAVING DONE MANY LARGE TECHNOLOGY PROJECTS OVER THE LAST 40 YEARS, THE ONE THING THAT WITHOUT FAIL SCREWS UP PROJECTS IS LATE CHANGES.

AND, AND I CAN GIVE YOU DOZENS OF EXAMPLES OF WHEN THAT'S HAPPENED IN THE PAST AND, AND IT SURELY WOULD HAPPEN HERE IF WE DECIDED TO CHANGE, CHANGE THE PATH ON HOW WE IMPLEMENT SOMETHING LIKE RTC OR

[00:50:01]

THE DATA AHEAD.

MARK, I, SO REALLY THAT WAS A VERY GOOD DISCUSSION.

THE ONLY THING I WOULD ADD TO THIS IS THE TIMELINE OF THE NEXT PASS OF REVISION.

'CAUSE YOU KNOW, WE'RE GONNA HAVE OUR VERSION 2.0.

YEAH.

SO AT THIS POINT, JULIE, WE DON'T HAVE ANY, UH, SPECIFICITY ON THE CHANGES AND THE, YOU KNOW, WHAT THAT WILL TAKE, RIGHT? BUT NORMALLY THAT'S PART OF WHEN THE CHANGE IS PROPOSED.

WE, WE SUBMIT WHAT'S CALLED AN IMPACT ANALYSIS, A FORMAL ANALYSIS OF WHAT THAT TAKES TO IMPLEMENT THE CHANGES, WHAT DOES IT COST, UH, HOW WE CAN FIT IT IN AND ALL THAT.

SO THAT'S PART OF THE STAKEHOLDER PROCESS WHERE WE WILL FORMALLY SAY THIS.

SO THIS ME AT A HIGH LEVEL, YOU KNOW, LOOKING AT THE CHANGE AND SAYING IF YOU'RE TOUCHING DAM, WELL THAT'S A BIG CHANGE.

I THINK JULIA'S MAKING A VERY GOOD POINT, AND THAT IS THAT YOU SHOULD SHOW ON YOUR PROJECT PLAN THAT THERE WILL BE A PHASE TWO OR A PHASE THREE MM-HMM, , AND THIS IS THE POINT PABLO WAS MAKING THAT RR AND M IS THE APPROPRIATE VENUE FOR VETTING THOSE CHANGES, WHICH THEN COME TO THE TECHNOLOGY TEAM TO, FOR IMPLEMENTATION.

DO AS, AS JP HAS INDICATED, YEAH.

PLAN OR NOT.

BUT, BUT I THINK YOU SHOULD ASSUME THAT YEAH.

IN YOUR, IN YOUR, IN YOUR GANTT CHART.

ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? JUST A, A COUPLE COMMENTS.

ONE, YEAH, LET'S DISCUSS IT THAT R AND M IN THE END, 'CAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE SUBSTANCE WILL BE.

UM, IT'S A BIT CONFUSING 'CAUSE THE IMM ACTUALLY HIGHLIGHTS IN THEIR REPORT THAT RTC IS THE ONE ITEM THAT HAS TO MOVE FORWARD.

SO, UH, DELAY IN TIME IS A CONCERN.

SO CONTINUING WITH THE, THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THIS AND HAVING A PATH FOR REVISIONS AS WE IMPROVE, I THINK SHOULD BE THE APPROACH.

YEAH, AGREE.

THANK YOU.

ANYTHING ELSE? ANY OTHER QUESTIONS, LINDA? DID YOU? OKAY, GOOD.

THANK YOU.

OKAY.

UH, NEXT UP IS VANKAT AND, UH, WITH A GRID TRANSFORMATION

[5.3 Grid Transformation Initiatives Update]

UPDATE WHILE, WHILE VAN KAT'S GETTING UP, AND I HOPE I'M NOT STEALING YOUR THUNDER, BUT I, I WOULD POINT OUT THAT THERE WAS A, A BRIEFING A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO THAT, UH, WAS, I THINK TO ALL STAFF, BUT, BUT THE BOARD WAS INVITED ON ON, UH, THE STATE OF LARGE LANGUAGE MODELS AND AI, UH, IN THE TECHNOLOGY, AND PARTICULARLY IN THE POWER INDUSTRY, THAT IF YOU DIDN'T SEE IT, YOU SHOULD, IT'S, IT'S, IT'S EMINENTLY UNDERSTANDABLE.

UM, IT'S, IT'S BY A GUY FROM IBM RESEARCH.

UM, AND HE DOES IT IN A PARTICULARLY, UH, GOOD WAY THAT, UH, UH, EVEN A AN OUT OF DATE ENGINEER LIKE MYSELF CAN UNDERSTAND.

SO I, I WOULD, I WOULD COMMEND THAT TO PEOPLE AND, AND I'VE ASKED VENKAT TO SEND YOU THE LINK AGAIN 'CAUSE IT'S, IT'S REALLY IS QUITE GOOD, SIR.

YEAH, THANK YOU JOHN, FOR THE SHOUT OUT.

APPRECIATE THAT.

SO WHAT, UH, JOHN IS REFERRING TO IS A SPEAKER SERIES THAT WE HAVE INTERNALLY AT WHERE, UH, WE CALL FOLKS FOR EXTERNAL ENTITIES TO COME AND TALK TO US ABOUT THE INNOVATION THAT IS HAPPENING AND, AND SO THAT WE CAN LEARN AND, AND SHARE THE LESSONS.

SO AGAIN, MY NAME IS VANKA AND I'M GONNA GIVE A BRIEF UPDATE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH THE GRID TRANSFORMATION INITIATIVES.

UM, I'M SPEARHEADING THE INITIATIVES AT , BUT IN COLLABORATION WITH SEVERAL FOLKS WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION AS WELL AS, UH, BEYOND ON, THIS IS A SLIDE THAT I HAVE, UH, SHOWN YOU FOLKS BEFORE, BUT I JUST WANT TO QUICKLY, UH, ORIENT YOU ALL AGAIN.

UH, THE FIRST COLUMN ON THE LEFT HAND SIDE THAT YOU SEE ARE THE, THE INITIATIVES.

AND WITHIN THAT YOU SEE A, B, C, ET CETERA.

THOSE ARE THE BROADER THEMES THAT WE HAVE.

AND UNDERNEATH THOSE THEMES, THE NUMERICAL ONES ARE THE, THE INITIATIVES.

SO FOR EXAMPLE, YOU KNOW, YOU LOOK AT, UH, UH, A ONE THAT IS EVALUATING THE FEASIBILITY OF MULTI INTERVAL LOOK AHEAD COMMITMENT AND DISPATCH, RIGHT? SO, UH, COLUMN NUMBER TWO IS THE MODALITY.

THAT IS SORT OF THE, THE OUTCOME THAT WE ARE AIMING FOR.

UH, SO THEY RANGE FROM WHITE PAPERS TO PROJECTS, UH, YOU KNOW, PILOT PROJECTS TO PROOF OF CONCEPTS, ET CETERA.

AND, UH, THE THIRD AND THE FOURTH COLUMNS ARE TIMELINES, 24 AND 25.

AND THE RED VERTICAL BAR THERE IS WHERE WE ARE TODAY AS WE STAND.

AND I DO HAVE SOME ICONS, UH, PLACED ALL OVER THE, THE SLIDE THERE.

UH, THE HOUR GLASS IS THINGS THAT ARE ALREADY IN PROGRESS AND THE CLOCK, THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE NOT STARTED YET, AND I'VE HIGHLIGHTED A COUPLE OF INITIATIVES IN, UH, YELLOW THERE.

AND THESE ARE THE INITIATIVES THAT WE ADDED IN JULY AS A TEAM.

UH, WE ARE MEETING QUITE, UH, PERIODICALLY, UH, ON A MONTHLY

[00:55:01]

BASIS, SOMETIMES ON A BIWEEKLY BASIS TO DISCUSS THE PROGRESS ON THESE INITIATIVES.

UH, WE ALSO HAVE A QUARTERLY MEETING WHERE I'M PULLING ALL THE KEY EXECUTIVES WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION ALONG WITH PABLO AND TALK ABOUT, HEY, WHAT NEXT WITH THESE INITIATIVES, RIGHT? MY IDEA IS THAT, YOU KNOW, AS THINGS, YOU KNOW, CHANGE WITHIN THE GRADE, THERE MIGHT BE SOME INITIATIVES THAT WE ADD.

AND, YOU KNOW, IF WE DO A PROOF OF CONCEPT AND WE THINK THAT THE PROOF OF CONCEPT IS GOOD, MAYBE WE ROLL IT OUT OF THIS PARTICULAR INITIATIVE LIST INTO A REGULAR PROJECT CADENCE, RIGHT? AT LEAST THAT'S THE, THE IDEA OF HAVING A QUARTERLY MEETING.

UM, SO THE, THE TWO NEW THINGS THAT WE ADDED, UH, WITH THE, UH, INTO THE LIST ARE THE DEVELOPING DEMAND RESPONSE PRODUCT.

UH, COMMISSIONER JACKSON, THIS IS IN, UH, COMPLEMENTARY TO THE WORK THAT PUC IS DOING WITH SENATE BILL 60 99 AND THE SMART PROGRAM.

AND WE THINK THAT, YOU KNOW, THE, THE WAY PC IS LOOKING AT THIS, AND THE WAY WANTS TO LOOK AT IT ARE, ARE VERY COMPLIMENTARY IN NATURE.

AND WE WILL BE ENGAGING THE PUC FOLKS AS WELL, UH, AT, AT AN APPROPRIATE TIME WHEN WE ARE A BIT MATURE IN, IN OUR THINKING OF WHAT WE WANT, RIGHT? UH, THE, THE D FOUR, WHICH IS DEVELOPING THE TIER DEFINITIONS OF LOAD AND ASSESSING THE HOLISTIC IMPACT IS SOMETHING THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, WE ARE THINKING ABOUT, YOU KNOW, THE PARADIGM THAT WE ALL OPERATE UNDER WHEN WE LOOK AT LOAD, WE THINK OF LOAD AS FIRM LOAD, YOU KNOW, IT'S INELASTIC, WE HAVE TO MEET THAT LOAD, BUT THAT DEFINITION I THINK IS, HAS TO CHANGE NOW WITH THE KIND OF LOAD THAT IS, YOU KNOW, EXPECTED TO COME ONTO THE GRID.

SO WE WANT TO LOOK, UH, LOOK AT THIS HOLISTICALLY AND COME UP WITH MAYBE DIFFERENT CATEGORIZATIONS OF LOAD.

NOT EVERYTHING IS FIRM, RIGHT? AND SEE HOW IT COULD IMPACT OUR APPLICATIONS AND TOOLS AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

SO THAT, THOSE ARE THE TWO NEW INITIATIVES THAT WE ADDED.

THE MAIN TAKEAWAY FROM THIS SLIDE FOR, FOR THE COMMITTEE HERE IS WE ARE ON TRACK WITH ALL THE THINGS, RIGHT? IF YOU SEE THE RED LINE AND THE, THE TIMELINES FOR ALL THE DIFFERENT INITIATIVES, B ONE, FOR EXAMPLE, IS DUE END OF Q3.

WE ARE ON TRACK TO DELIVER THE, THE PROOF OF CONCEPT AND WE'LL COME OUT WITH A PAPER THAT DESCRIBES WHAT WE ARE DOING THERE.

AND THE REST OF THE INITIATIVES, YOU KNOW, WHERE A LOT OF DELIVERABLES ARE, UH, END OF Q4, I THINK WE WILL MEET ALL THOSE DELIVERABLES.

UH, AGAIN, IT'S A, UH, CAN I ASK A QUESTION? YEAH.

UM, I, I WOULD ASSUME THAT D THREE AND D FOUR ARE HIGHLY INTERRELATED IN, IN THE SENSE THAT HAVING A DEFINITION, A TIERED DEFINITION OF LOAD IS INTERESTING, BUT NOT PARTICULARLY INFORMATIVE UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT THE DEMAND RESPONSE CHARACTERISTICS OF EACH OF THOSE TIERS WOULD BE.

SO I, I ASSUME THAT'S REALLY WHAT YOU'RE TRYING TO GET AT HERE.

IS THAT RIGHT? THAT, THAT IS RIGHT JOHN.

WE WANT TO LOOK AT THE DIFFERENT TIERS OF LOAD AND THE CLASSIFICATIONS OF LOAD AND HOW DO WE DEFINE THEM.

AND I THINK, AS YOU SAID, THAT WOULD PLAY A ROLE IN SEVERAL OTHER INITIATIVES THAT WE WANT TO DO.

YEAH.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

WOULD YOU WANNA SAY SOMETHING? YEAH, I THINK, UH, TRADITIONALLY NEW LOAD WAS FIRM LOAD.

IT ALL HAD TO BE SERVED.

I THINK SOME OF THE NEWER LOAD THAT'S COMING ONLINE NOW HAS A POSSIBILITY THAT SOME OF IT MAY HAVE.

MAYBE IF DEFINITIONS COULD BE CHANGED, YOU COULD END UP WITH SOME NEW LOAD THAT, UH, YOU DON'T NECESSARILY HAVE TO BUILD TRANSMISSION TO SERVE.

IT WOULD BE, IT WOULDN'T BE ONLINE DURING, UH, SCARCITY CONDITIONS.

AND SO, UH, MAYBE FIRM LOAD WOULD BE ONE TYPE OF LOAD, FIRM LOAD WOULD BACKUP, MIGHT BE ANOTHER TYPE OF LOAD.

UH, SO, SO YOU'RE THINKING OF DATA CENTERS AND CYBER AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS.

AND, AND I THINK SOME OF THE OTHER NEW KINDS OF, OF, UH, OF, OF LARGE LOADS LIKE HYDROGEN AND DIFFERENT THINGS LIKE THAT.

BUT, UH, CURRENTLY THE DEFINITION OF LOAD AND WHAT TSPS ARE, ARE REQUIRED TO SERVE DOESN'T ALLOW THAT KIND OF FLEXIBILITY.

AND SO THAT'S REALLY WHAT THE, UH, THE D FOUR THERE IS, IS MEANT TO, TO KIND OF LOOK AT.

ALRIGHT.

SO WHEN DO YOU THINK WE MIGHT BE ABLE TO GET FROM THE YELLOW BOX TO THE GREEN BOX? WHEN DO YOU THINK WE WAS GONNA ADD SOME GREEN BOXES UP THERE TO SOME? YES.

I THINK, UH, THIS WAS, UH, OUT OF OUR JULY MEETING, UH, COMMISSIONER JACKSON.

SO, UH, SINCE I UPDATED, YOU KNOW, PREPARED THESE SLIDES, WE HAVE UPDATES WHERE WE ACTUALLY STARTED D THREE, WE HAD HAD A MEETING INTERNALLY WITH OUR CARD.

SO, AND WE HAVE A TIMELINE THAT IS LAID OUT.

IT'S JUST THAT THIS SLIDE HASN'T BEEN UPDATED, UH, BECAUSE OF THE, THE TIMING WHERE I HAVE TO SUBMIT THE SLIDE.

BUT WE ARE, UH, MAKING PROGRESS AND I CAN SHARE WITH YOU WHAT WE ARE THINKING IN TERMS OF THE TIMELINE FOR D THREE AND WHEN PUC CAN, UH, CAN INTERJECT AND START HELP WORKING WITH US.

OKAY.

THANK YOU.

UH, THIS IS A VERY SIMILAR SLIDE, UH, IN TERMS OF ALL THE DIFFERENT INITIATIVES AND, AND YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF, UH, YOU KNOW, IMPORTANT TOPICS IN TERMS OF DYNAMIC SECURITY, YOU KNOW, UH, STEADY STATE SECURITY, UH, EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES.

I HAD A GOOD CHAT WITH, UH, JOHN, YOU KNOW, ABOUT EMERGING TECHNOLOGIES, ESPECIALLY THE APPLICATION

[01:00:01]

OF AI ML TO OPTIMIZATION.

WE ARE DOING SOME, UH, PROOF OF CONCEPTS THERE.

AND WE ARE ALSO IDENTIFYING WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION ALL THE DIFFERENT USE CASES FOR AI ML.

WE HAVE A LIST OF ABOUT 35 USE CASES ALREADY, AND THAT WAS EVEN BEFORE THE SORT OF THE WAVE OF GEN AI.

AND SO WE ARE, WE ARE GONNA REVISIT THAT LIST AND HAVE A STRATEGY ON HOW WE WANT TO, YOU KNOW, UH, COME UP WITH, UH, SOLUTIONS FOR THOSE, UH, FOR THOSE USE CASES.

UH, THE, THE ICONS AND EVERYTHING ARE STILL THE SAME.

UH, A LOT OF THINGS ARE IN PROGRESS.

UH, WE HAVE, UH, YOU KNOW, CORE TEAM MEMBERS WORKING ON THEM, AND THERE ARE A COUPLE OF THEM, WHICH ARE, YOU KNOW, EIGHT TO START MOVING ON.

UM, WE DO HAVE THE SPEAKER SERIES, AS I JUST ALLUDED TO, UH, DR.

HAMAN FROM IBM RESEARCH.

YOU KNOW, THAT WAS THE TALK THAT, UH, JOHN MENTIONED.

AND, UH, WE HAVE UPCOMING ONE.

UH, WE HAVE, UH, CHIEF TECHNOLOGIST FROM ISO NEW ENGLAND WHO'S GONNA TALK TO ABOUT WHAT'S HAPPENING WITH IS O NEW ENGLAND.

UH, WE HAVE I-E-S-O-C-O-O WHO WILL TALK TO US IN OCTOBER ABOUT SOME OF THE CULTURAL TRANSFORMATION THAT THEY'RE DOING IN ISO.

SO IT'S NOT JUST TECHNOLOGY, IT'S ALSO, YOU KNOW, SORT OF CULTURAL TRANSFORMATION.

HE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT THAT.

AND, UH, I HAVE LINED UP, UH, UH, DR.

ANJA BOOSE FROM WASHINGTON STATE UNIVERSITY.

HE'S GONNA TALK ABOUT TRANSMISSION DISTRIBUTION, YOU KNOW, INTERFACING AND, UH, KE JOHNSON FROM WELCO, VERMONT ELECTRIC.

VERMONT IS A VERY UNIQUE USE CASE.

YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SMALL GENERATION TRANSMISSION DISTRIBUTION ALL IN ONE.

THEY'RE LIKE A UNIQUE TEST BED FOR, FOR INNOVATION.

SO I THINK IT'LL BE FUN TO, UH, LISTEN TO WHAT KERIK AND HIS TEAM HAVE TO SAY ABOUT, YOU KNOW, SOME OF THE INNOVATION THAT THEY'RE DOING.

UH, NOT JUST THESE, UH, WE HAVE A COUPLE OF OTHER SPEAKERS THAT I'M ACTIVELY ENGAGED WITH SO THAT, YOU KNOW, WE CAN HAVE FOLKS LISTEN TO WHAT'S HAPPENING OUT THERE.

UM, INTERNALLY, UH, I ALSO HAVE A MEETING THAT I'M CALLING IT, UH, RESEARCH RDA.

WOO.

UH, I BRING ALL THE STAKEHOLDERS INTERNALLY, COUPLE OF MONTHS, UH, TO TALK ABOUT AND SHARE ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE INDUSTRY, GET FEEDBACK, SHARE THE KNOWLEDGE.

UH, I FEEL THAT IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT EMPLOYEES AND THE KEY TEAM MEMBERS ARE AWARE OF WHAT'S HAPPENING, UH, TO SUPPORT THAT.

UH, WE HAVE AN INTERNET SITE THAT WE HAVE, UH, THAT WE ARE ACTUALLY WORKING ON WHERE WE WILL POST ALL THE ARTICLES, THE, THE, THE FUN THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING IN THE INDUSTRY, MAYBE THE CONFERENCES, THE SUMMITS, THE TAKEAWAYS FROM THOSE SUMMITS, ALL OF THAT.

AND I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE LIKE A NEWSLETTER THAT WE WILL SEND OUT INTERNALLY, UH, A MONTHLY DIGEST OF ALL THE DIFFERENT THINGS THAT ARE HAPPENING.

SO ALL THOSE ARE WORK IN PROGRESS.

UH, I'M ALSO, YOU KNOW, SERIOUSLY CONTEMPLATING AN INNOVATION RODEO, UH, WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION TO, UH, TO, UH, UNEARTH THE POTENTIAL THAT THAT EXISTS WITHIN OUR TEAM MEMBERS AND SOME OF THE IDEAS THAT THEY HAVE.

AND, UH, WE ARE PUTTING TOGETHER A SURVEY TO GAUGE THE INTEREST ON, YOU KNOW, HOW MANY FOLKS ARE INTERESTED IN PARTICIPATING IN SOMETHING LIKE THAT WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION.

SO ALL THESE ARE DIFFERENT ACTIVITIES THAT ARE HAPPENING WITHIN THE ORGANIZATION SO THAT I CAN SUSTAIN THE FOCUS ON INNOVATION AND RESEARCH AND THINGS LIKE THAT.

UH, I THINK THAT'S ALL I HAVE, UH, TO SHARE HERE.

THANK YOU.

VANCAT.

ANY QUESTIONS? IF NOT, JP, YOU WANT TO COME BACK UP AGAIN? UM, HERE

[6. Future Agenda Items]

IS WHERE WE PLAN A LITTLE BIT, UH, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS. UM, WE HAD TALKED AT A PRIOR MEETING ABOUT HAVING A BRIEFING ON NUCLEAR, UM, WHICH WAS A, WHICH, UH, WOULD ACTUALLY HAVE JIMMY FROM PUC COME IN.

AND THE TIMING FOR THIS MEETING WASN'T QUITE RIGHT, BUT THAT'S CERTAINLY ONE THAT THE COMMITTEE HAS EXPRESSED INTEREST IN HEARING ABOUT.

SO, UH, AT THE APPROPRIATE TIME, UH, WE'LL, WE'LL SEE IF, IF HE'S READY TO, TO BRING THAT TO US.

I UNDERSTAND THAT WE MAY NOT BE THE FIRST IN THE SEQUENCE, BUT, UH, WE'D LIKE, WE'D LIKE TO BE THE SECOND, UM, AFTER YOU GUYS, UH, ANY OTHER TOPICS FROM COMMITTEE MEMBERS THAT THEY'D LIKE TO SEE OR IDEAS, UH, JP THAT YOU HAVE? YEAH, SO ONE THING, JOHN, IS GIVEN THE TIME IT TAKES TO SCHEDULE SOME OF THE SPEAKERS, RIGHT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT LIKE THEY'RE, THEY'RE SITTING, RIGHT? SO, YOU KNOW, WE JUST WENT AND AS A BACKUP SCHEDULE, JIM FO FROM THE PACIFIC NORTH WEST NATIONAL LAB, HE LEADS THE INITIATIVE ON THE NORTH AMERICAN CRO PHASES.

SO THERE'S AT LEAST THAT TOPIC THAT WE COULD BRING IN OCTOBER.

UM, IT'S AVAILABLE AND, UM, UM, ENTHUSIASTIC TO TALK TO US.

AND THAT'S A TOPIC THAT HAS BEEN OF INTEREST FROM PMU.

AND I KNOW, LINDA, YOU'LL DEFINITELY HAVE A CONTACT.

I HAVE MENTIONED IT MULTIPLE TIMES.

IT'S NOT URGENT, BUT YES, IF IT'S AVAILABLE AND WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ELSE SCHEDULED, IT'S A GOOD REVIEW.

OKAY.

THERE'S ALSO A PROFESSOR AT UNIVERSITY OF TEXAS WHOSE NAME I'VE JUST FORGOTTEN, BUT JP YOU AND I TALKED ABOUT POTENTIALLY BRINGING IN TO, TO TALK ABOUT SOME, AGAIN, A LITTLE BIT LIKE THE PRE THE PRIOR, THE SPEAKER LAST QUARTER ON SORT OF HOW TO, HOW TO INTEGRATE, UH, NEW TECHNOLOGIES INTO AN EXISTING GRID.

YES.

UM, I THINK THAT'S PROFESSOR WEBER, BUT YEAH.

YEAH.

OKAY.

AND FEEL FREE TO REACH OUT TO ME THROUGH

[01:05:01]

JOHN AS WELL, IF YOU HAVE, UH, SPEAKERS COME, COME TO MIND.

UM, ARE THERE ANY OTHER THINGS, UM, THAT YOU ALL HAVE HEARD ABOUT THAT YOU THINK NEED A DEEPER DIVE? WE'VE PICKED RTC AS SORT OF THE ONE TOPIC THAT WILL GO IN EVERY MEETING ON JUST 'CAUSE OF ITS IMPORTANCE.

BUT IF, IF THERE ARE OTHER TECHNOLOGY PROJECTS, UH, AND, AND JP OBVIOUSLY PICKS THINGS THAT HE THINKS ARE RELEVANT AS HE DID THIS TIME, BUT, UM, IF THERE ARE OTHER THINGS THAT YOU WOULD LIKE TO HEAR ABOUT, LET US KNOW AND WE'LL, WE'LL, WE'LL PUT THEM INTO THE AGENDA.

YEAH.

AND ALSO WE COULD GO DEEPER.

THAT'S ANOTHER OPTION AS WELL.

THAT'S REALLY, THAT'S REALLY THE POINT.

YEAH, LINDA, SO, SO I WAS SORT OF STRUGGLING WITH SOMETHING AND TRYING TO FORM IT INTO WORDS HERE, SO I'LL GIVE IT A SHOT.

UM, SO WE ARE AN APPLICATIONS ORGANIZATION.

ERCOT NOT A RESEARCH ORGANIZATION.

AND SO AS WE'RE LOOKING AT INNOVATION, WE'RE TAKING THE RIGHT APPROACH.

BUT I THINK WHAT WE REALLY WANT TO START LOOK, REALLY LOOK AT IN AS WE DRAW A CONCLUSION, LIKE WITH OUR SPEAKERS, IS WHAT'S THE IMPLEMENTATION PROFILE LOOK LIKE? AND WHEN WE TALK ABOUT ACTUALLY IN THE GRID, BECAUSE THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN WHICH MATURITY STAGE IT'S AT, LIKE HAVE WE DEMONSTRATED IT? ARE THERE SOME, YOU KNOW, UH, TEST SITES? UH, AND I THINK IT WOULD BE GOOD FOR US TO GAUGE THAT SO WE UNDERSTAND, UM, YEAH.

TIMING.

YEAH.

AND THAT WOULD BE HELPFUL.

AS THE LAST SLIDE, I DON'T WANT TO GO INTO IT A LOT OF DETAIL, BUT JUST SORT OF UNDERSTAND WHAT'S HAPPENING IN IMPLEMENTATION OF THE GRID.

MY OBSERV, AND I THINK JP CAN CHIME IN ON THIS.

MY OBSERVATION IS THAT WE ARE INHERENTLY CONSERVATIVE.

UM, WE'RE RARELY GOING TO BE THE, UM, GROUNDBREAKER ON NEW TECHNOLOGIES JUST BECAUSE OF OUR SIZE AND SCOPE AND THE NUMBER OF PEOPLE INVOLVED.

UM, AND, AND YOU KNOW, MAYBE THAT'S WHY WE HAVE TO LEARN FROM GUYS LIKE VERMONT ELECTRIC AND STUFF LIKE THAT IS TO, YOU KNOW, WHAT, WHAT THEY'VE DONE ON A SMALLER SCALE BEFORE WE, YOU KNOW, ACTIVELY IMPLEMENT HERE.

WE HAVE LITERALLY A THOUSAND PARTICIPANTS IN OUR NETWORK THAT HAVE TO ALL SIGN OFF ON STUFF.

SO THAT, THAT DOES TEND TO CONSTRAIN YOU A LITTLE BIT.

BUT I THINK IT'S A GOOD SUGGESTION.

AND PART OF THE REASON FOR THE SUGGESTION IS THE, LIKE YOU SAY, WE'RE CONSERVATIVE WHEN WE'RE GONNA IMPLEMENT IT.

IS THIS FIVE, IS THIS SOMETHING THAT WOULD BE ON OUR AGENDA AT FIVE YEARS OR 10 YEARS? BUT IT CLEARLY WILL BE BEING TEST, THERE'LL BE TESTS, STATIONS AND THINGS LIKE THAT EARLIER.

OKAY.

ANYTHING ELSE? OKAY.

UH, LAST ITEM ON THE OPEN MEETING AGENDA IS ARE THERE BUSINESS? UM, I DO NOT HAVE ANY, DO ANY COMMITTEE MEMBERS HAVE ANY OTHER BUSINESS THEY'D LIKE TO BRING FORWARD? UM, IF NOT, WE'RE

[Convene Executive Session]

GONNA ADJOURN FOR A, I'LL CALL IT A 10 MINUTE BREAK, 15 MINUTE, 10 MINUTE BREAK.

UH, START AT 20 AFTER 10 AND WE'LL START WITH THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.