[00:00:03]
[1. Call General Session to Order]
CALL A MEETING OF THE TECHNOLOGY AND SECURITY COMMITTEE TO ORDER.I'M JOHN SWENSEN, COMMITTEE CHAIR.
UM, AND THIS MORNING, UH, THIS MEETING IS BEING BROADCAST ALIVE ON OUR ERCOT WEBSITE.
I'VE CONFIRMED THAT WE HAVE A QUORUM.
UM, LINDA IS UNABLE TO ATTEND THE TODAY'S MEETING, BUT PLANS TO PARTICIPATE IN THE FULL BOARD MEETING TOMORROW.
UH, THOMAS DOES NOT NEED TO CALL AN OPEN MEETING OF THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION.
BEFORE WE DO, I'D LIKE TO JUST DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE ANTITRUST AND SECURITY, UM, DOCUMENT THAT'S IN FRONT OF YOU, UM, INCLUDING THE WAY OUTTA HERE IN THE EVENT OF SOME DISASTER.
UM, AND ALSO BROUGHT, DRAW YOUR ATTENTION TO THE FACT THAT, UM, THERE HAS BEEN A NOTICE, UH, POSTED FOR PUBLIC COMMENT.
UM, AND IF THERE ARE ANY COMMENTS, I DON'T BELIEVE, BUT BRENT, WE HAVE NOT RECEIVED ANY COMMENTS, CHAIR, NO COMMENTS RECEIVED.
SO, UM, CHAIR, I WOULD HIGHLIGHT THAT COMMISSIONER ALTMAN IS ON THE WEBEX AS WELL.
YEAH, SHE JUST LET ME KNOW THAT.
SO THIS MEETING OF THE PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION OF TEXAS WILL COME TO ORDER TO CONSIDER MATTERS THAT BEEN DULY POSTED WITH THE SECRETARY OF STATE FOR FEBRUARY 9TH, 2026.
OKAY, LET'S GET INTO THE MEAT OF THE MEETING THEN.
[3. December 8,2025 General Session Meeting Minutes]
THE FIRST THING I'D LIKE TO DO IS JUST TO ASK FOR A MOTION TO APPROVE THE MINUTES FROM THE, UH, DECEMBER 8TH GENERAL SESSION.I'D BE HAPPY TO MAKE, MAKE A MOTION.
[4. Understanding Battery Energy Storage Systems - Current and Future]
LET'S GET INTO OUR GUEST PRESENTATION.I'M VERY PLEASED TO, UH, INVITE, UH, BOB HILTON TO INTRODUCE THIS PRESENTATION.
UM, BOB IS THE VICE PRESIDENT OF GOVERNMENT AND REGULATORY AFFAIRS IN XI NORTH AMERICA, AND HE'S GONNA INTRODUCE OUR PRESENTERS.
AND, UH, WITH THAT, I'M GONNA TURN IT OVER TO HIM.
THE TOPIC IS UNDERSTANDING BATTERY ENERGY STORAGE SYSTEMS, CURRENT AND FUTURE.
THANK YOU ALL FOR HAVING US HERE TODAY.
AS YOU SAID, YOU KNOW, BOB HILTON FROM ENGIE, UH, NORTH AMERICA, ALSO YOUR TECHNICAL ADVISORY COMMITTEE MEMBER REPRESENTING THE INDEPENDENT GENERATORS.
THE FIRST, WELL, THE WAY WE'VE GOT THIS SET UP IS WE'VE GOT, UH, MARK STOVER, WHO IS THE EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR FOR THE TEXAS SOLAR POWER AND STORAGE ASSOCIATIONS WHO WILL COME UP, KIND OF GIVE YOU SOME STUFF THAT, YOU KNOW, KIND OF A RESET OF WHERE STORAGE IS.
AND THEN WE'RE GONNA HAVE NARS MEEZER, UH, PRONOUNCE THAT
UH, MISRA TO, UH, DISCUSS KIND OF A LITTLE BIT ON HOW BATTERIES WORK, WHICH YOU PROBABLY ALREADY HAVE SOME KNOWLEDGE ON.
AND THEN GO INTO HOW THAT CAN HELP DATA CENTERS.
AND THEN ON LONG TERM, WHAT IS THE LONG TERM POTENTIAL MARKET CHANGES AND THE CHANGES THAT NEED TO GO ON IN TECHNOLOGY TO GET US TO, YOU KNOW, NOT JUST MAYBE FIVE HOUR, 10 HOUR, 12 HOUR BATTERIES, BUT FIVE DAY BATTERIES.
HOW DO WE DO THAT AND WHAT MAYBE THAT NEEDS TO HAVE HAPPEN.
SO WITH THAT, I DON'T WANNA TAKE THEIR TIME AND, UH, TO, TO PRESENT EVERYTHING.
SO, FIRST UP, I'LL START WITH MARK STOVER.
APPRECIATE THE OPPORTUNITY TO BE HERE.
UM, AS BOB SAID, I'M GONNA KIND OF SET THE TABLE HERE.
UM, I THINK MUCH OF WHAT I'LL TALK ABOUT IS FAIRLY WELL KNOWN IN THE ROOM, UH, BUT REALLY WANT TO SET IT UP FOR NNG.
AGAIN, MARK STOVER, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR OF TSSA.
WE'RE A TRADE ASSOCIATION, REPRESENTS SOLAR AND STORAGE INDUSTRY.
UH, FROM THE RESIDENTIAL SCALE TO UTILITY SCALE, WE'RE IN OUR 11TH YEAR OF OPERATION, VERY ACTIVE AT THE CAPITAL PUC AND OVER HERE PRIMARILY THROUGH OUR CONSULTANTS AND OUR MEMBER COMPANIES.
UH, ERIC O LAURIE BLOCK WORK WITH US.
SO AGAIN, I'M JUST GONNA DO A QUICK INDUSTRY SNAPSHOT HERE.
AND ACTUALLY, JUST LOOKING AT THE SLIDE, SOME OF THESE NUMBERS ARE ALREADY OUT OF DATE.
I THINK WE ARE ACTUALLY GOING TO VISIT WITH YOU GUYS BACK IN LATE OCTOBER OR NOVEMBER.
SO WE HAVE A, A LITTLE BIT OF SHIFT IN THE NUMBERS HERE.
SO I THINK WHERE WE'RE AT RIGHT NOW, I COULD PULL UP THE, THE ERCOT DASHBOARD, BUT WE'RE PROBABLY CLOSE TO 17,000 MEGAWATTS OF, UH, BATTERY STORAGE OPERATING IN THE ERCOT MARKET.
RIGHT NOW, WE ARE NUMBER ONE IN THE UNITED STATES FOR BATTERY STORAGE.
WE CROSSED THAT MILESTONE SOMETIME LAST YEAR.
I ANTICIPATED THAT IT MIGHT HAPPEN A LITTLE BIT SOONER THAN THAT.
BUT WE ARE NOW NUMBER ONE IN BATTERY STORAGE.
IF YOU LOOK AT, UH, THE QUEUE AND THE GROWTH OVER THE PAST, SAY FIVE YEARS, IT'S BEEN A RACE BETWEEN SOLAR AND STORAGE.
[00:05:01]
THEY'RE PRETTY MUCH NECK AND NECK.UM, WE DID ADD OVER THE PAST YEAR ABOUT 6,000 MEGAWATTS OF STORAGE IN, IN ERCOT.
UM, IT IS NOW NUMBER ONE IN THE DEVELOPMENT QUEUE.
THAT'S BEEN A LITTLE BIT OF A SHIFT, A LITTLE BIT OF A CHANGE THAT WE SAW RECENTLY FOR QUITE SOME TIME.
IT WAS SOLAR BATTERIES, WIND, AND THEN NATURAL GAS.
I THINK ABOUT TWO MONTHS AGO WE SAW A SHIFT WHERE BATTERIES ARE NOW NUMBER ONE IN THE ERCOT DEVELOPMENT QUEUE.
SOLAR IS TO, AND NOW GAS IS LEAP PROGGED WIND, WHICH IS SOMETHING THAT WE ANTICIPATED.
AND NOW WIND IS FORTH IN THE QUEUE.
UM, ABOUT 10% OF TEXAS HAS BEEN POWERED, OR THE GRID HAS BEEN POWERED BY BATTERY STORAGE AT TIMES.
I THINK FOR ME, ONE OF THE INTERESTING THINGS TO WATCH OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS FOR BATTERY STORAGE IS NOT ONLY KIND OF THE, THE, THE PEAK IN OUTPUT THAT WE'RE SEEING, WE'RE SETTING RECORD AFTER RECORD, UH, UM, ALMOST ON A MONTHLY BASIS.
BUT NOW YOU'RE STARTING TO SEE THAT CURVE FATTEN OUT A LITTLE BIT.
SO YOU'RE SEEING BATTERIES STAY ON THE GRID FOR LONGER PERIODS OF TIME.
UM, I THINK IF YOU LOOK AT THE DATA OVER THE PAST FEW YEARS, INCREASING GRID RELIABILITY, I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY DEBATE ABOUT THAT.
ALSO, DRIVING POWER, PRICE AFFORDABILITY.
I THINK WE'VE SEEN IN THE ANCILLARY SERVICES MARKET THE IMPACT OF BATTERY STORAGE AND LOWERING THOSE COSTS.
UH, THIS IS OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, A DISPATCHABLE TECHNOLOGY.
YOU GUYS KNOW THAT, UM, THIS IS, UH, SCALABLE AND FLEXIBLE.
THIS IS A TECHNOLOGY THAT CAN BE DEPLOYED ANYWHERE IN TEXAS.
UH, AND, AND THERE THERE ARE A LOT OF DIFFERENT BENEFITS THAT BATTERIES BRING TO THE MARKET.
AND AS I SAID, AS A, UH, AN ASSOCIATION THAT REPRESENTS RESIDENTIAL TO UTILITY SCALE.
ONE OF THE THINGS THAT, UM, YOU KNOW, IS OF REAL INTEREST TO US IS THAT SCALABILITY AND THE ABILITY TO DEPLOY ANYWHERE IN TEXAS, THESE ARE FAST RESPONDING.
UM, AND ONE IMPORTANT NOTE, I THINK CERTAINLY FOR OUR ASSOCIATION AND FOR POLICYMAKERS IS THAT YOU HAVE SEEN ROUGHLY 30% OF THE BATTERIES IN TEXAS BE CO-LOCATED WITH SOLAR STORAGE ASSETS.
AND WHAT DOES THAT DO? THAT REALLY WITHIN THAT SINGLE PROJECT FOOTPRINT TAKES THAT SOLAR ASSET, ADDS AN ELEMENT OF DISPATCHABILITY EXTRA OPERATIONAL FLEXIBILITY AND RELIABILITY.
YOU'RE TAKING, YOU KNOW, IN THE SUMMER, SPRING, MOST OF THE FALL, A 12 HOUR PRODUCT WITH SOLAR AND TURNING THAT INTO A 14, 16, MAYBE 18 HOUR PRODUCT WITH THE DISPATCH OF, OF BATTERIES.
NOW WE HAVE SEEN, AND, AND YOU ALL KNOW, THE EVOLUTION OF BATTERY STORAGE IN TEXAS STARTED OUT WITH A LOT OF ONE HOUR BATTERY, ONE ONE HOUR DURATION, BATTERY PROJECTS MOVED INTO TWO HOURS.
NOW WE'RE STARTING TO FLIRT A LITTLE BIT WITH FOUR HOUR DURATION ENERGY STORAGE.
AND I KNOW THAT, UM, ANGIE'S GONNA TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT THAT.
AGAIN, I'M JUST KIND OF SETTING THE TABLE, SETTING THE SCENE HERE.
UM, TWO IMPORTANT POLICY NOTES FOR US.
LAST SESSION, WE WORKED VERY CLOSELY WITH THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE TO ADOPT TWO CRITICAL BILLS RELATED TO BATTERY STORAGE DEPLOYMENT IN TEXAS 38 0 9 AND 38 24.
THOSE BILLS ADDRESS, TWO SUBJECTS, ONE DECOMMISSIONING.
UH, THERE WERE STILL A LOT OF QUESTIONS AROUND WHAT HAPPENS, UH, TO A BATTERY STORAGE PROJECT AT THE END, IF IT'S USEFUL LIFE, IF IT IS NOT REPOWERED, WE HAVE VERY STRONG DECOMMISSIONING LAW.
ESSENTIALLY WHAT THAT GUARANTEES IS THAT THE ONLY PARTY RESPONSIBLE FOR REMOVAL OF THAT FACILITY IS THE PROJECT OWNER.
THE COMMUNITY DOESN'T PAY, THE STATE DOESN'T PAY, UH, VERY ROBUST LEGISLATION, VERY PRESCRIPTIVE LEGISLATION ABOUT WHAT DECOMMISSIONING LOOKS LIKE, WHAT THE FUNDING MECHANISM LOOKS LIKE.
UH, SO WE WERE PROUD TO WORK ON THAT LEGISLATION.
AND THEN WE HAVE FIRE SAFETY, UH, LEGISLATION THAT WAS ALSO ADOPTED LAST SESSION.
THAT IS TO ENSURE THAT ANY BATTERY PROJECT IN TEXAS, NO MATTER WHERE IT IS LOCATED, IS FOLLOWING THE HIGHEST SAFETY STANDARDS, REGULATIONS, PROTOCOLS, ET CETERA.
SO, UM, THOSE WERE TWO PRIORITY BILLS OF, OF TSSA AND WE'RE GLAD TO SEE THOSE GET ACROSS THE FINISH LINE.
UM, I THINK NOW, UM, I'LL PROBABLY HAVE NG COME UP.
I CAN TOUCH ON THIS SLIDE VERY QUICKLY, BUT THE, THE RECORD HERE THAT WE'RE FLAGGING, I THINK WAS ALREADY BROKEN AFTER THAT.
I THINK WE HAVE CROSSED THE 10,000 MEGAWATT, UM, UH, MARK IN, IN ERCOT NOW.
UM, AND I THINK, YOU KNOW, FOR THOSE WHO ARE PAYING CLOSE ATTENTION TO HOW BATTERIES OPERATE, YOU'RE SEEING, ESPECIALLY IN THE WINTER, UH, REALLY STRONG DISCHARGE IN THE MORNING BEFORE THE SUM SUN COMES UP.
AND WE SAW THIS IN IN WINTER STORM FERN, WE HAD ABOUT 7,500 MEGAWATTS COME ONLINE RIGHT WHEN THE, THE PREDICTED, UH, PEAK, UH, UH, LOAD LOAD PEAK OF THAT STORM, UH, WAS, WAS APPEARING.
BUT YOU'RE SEEING A LOT OF ACTIVITY IN THE MORNING.
OBVIOUSLY WE ALL KNOW ABOUT, UM, SOLAR DOWN RAMP AND THE BATTERY ACTIVITY IN THE AFTERNOON, THE MORNING IS ESPECIALLY INTERESTING TO WATCH.
PEOPLE ARE, YOU KNOW, GETTING READY FOR WORK AND FOR SCHOOL WHEN YOU SEE A LOT OF ENERGY CONSUMPTION.
SO BATTERIES ARE REALLY STARTING TO DEPLOY A WHOLE LOT MORE IN THE MORNING.
UM, I THINK ONE THING THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE, WE'RE INTERESTED IN, UM, NOT ONLY IS BATTERY PARTICIPATION IN THE ANCILLARY SERVICES MARKET, A FEW YEARS AGO, WON A WHOLE LOT OF BATTERY ACTIVITY IN THE ANCILLARY SERVICES MARKET.
NOW THEY'RE PROVIDING, UH, PRETTY HIGH VOLUME IN EVERY SINGLE ANCILLARY SERVICE CATEGORY.
[00:10:01]
UM, THAT HAS HAD SOME INTERESTING MARKET IMPLICATIONS.I THINK THAT THAT ENGIE WILL GET INTO A LITTLE BIT.
SO I THINK GOING FORWARD FOR TSSA, WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN TERMS OF THE FUTURE IS, UM, WHAT DOES VALUE STACKING LOOK LIKE FOR BATTERY STORAGE? WHAT'S THE NEXT STATE OF PLAY? UM, HOW DO THEY BALANCE OUT PLAYING IN THE ANCILLARY SERVICES MARKET VERSUS THE ENERGY ONLY MARKET? SO I THINK WITH THAT, I'LL TURN IT OVER TO ENGIE TO TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT, UH, THEIR ACTIVITIES IN THE MARKET AND, AND TAKE A LOOK AT, AT THE FUTURE, UM, WITH A FOCUS ON FOUR HOUR BATTERIES.
AND THAT'S SOMETHING WE'RE REALLY EXCITED ABOUT IN ERCO, NOT, NOT ONLY FOUR, BUT EVEN LONGER DURATION BATTERIES.
AGAIN, WE DON'T HAVE A WHOLE OF THAT IN THE MARKET RIGHT NOW.
A LITTLE BIT OF A MARKET SIGNAL PROBLEM.
SO I'LL LET NG COME ON UP AND, UH, TAKE OVER.
SO I WILL STEP BACK FROM THERE.
THE, UH, A VERY, VERY QUICK OVERVIEW ON NG AND WHERE WE ARE CURRENTLY AS A PART OF ERCOT, UH, 3.2 GIGAWATTS, 4.7 GIGAWATT HOURS.
I RUN THE, UH, ENERGY MARKETING AND, UH, TRADING PLATFORM, WHICH OPTIMIZES ALL OF THESE BATTERIES FOR US.
AND, UM, YOU COULD TALK ABOUT LONG DURATION STORAGE.
WE'LL, WE'LL TALK A LOT ABOUT THAT OVER THE NEXT FEW MINUTES HERE.
BUT OVERALL, AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, WE'RE LOOKING AT ABOUT A ONE AND A HALF, TWO HOUR BATTERIES, UH, DURATION AT THE, UH, FOR THE 3.2 GIGAWATTS THAT WE HAVE.
THE, THE REASON WHY WE BUILT THE 3.2 GIGAWATTS AT THIS, UH, DURATION IS PRIMARILY BECAUSE THAT IS WHAT THE MARKET INDICATIONS WERE, AND THIS IS WHAT THE MARKET WANTED.
AND, UH, WE PRIMARILY REACT TO WHAT THE MARKET, UH, SIGNALS ARE THERE.
THERE'RE TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT, UM, UNDERWRITING CASES THAT WE GO AFTER.
AND THE RE UH, THE ONE IS THE DAY WHEN WE ACTUALLY, UH, DECIDE TO BUILD THESE BATTERIES.
AND THESE WERE DECISIONS TAKEN OVER THE LAST THREE, FOUR YEARS.
AND, UM, A BIG PART OF THIS WAS AT THAT MOMENT IN TIME, THE MARKET SIGNALS SET THAT WERE SENT FOR THE NEXT 10 YEARS REQUIRED US TO JUST BUILD ONE TO OUR BATTERIES.
THE, UH, AND AND WHAT THE MARKET IS SHOWING AS WELL IS THAT THAT'S ALL WE NEED AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.
THE, UH, THE, THE PLACES THAT WE PARTICIPATE, OBVIOUSLY ANCILLARY SERVICES, ENERGY IS A BIG PART OF, UH, WHAT WE DO AS WELL.
UM, WE DEPLOY A LOT OF, A LOT OF OUR PRODUCT ON A DAY-TO-DAY BASIS.
DID I PRESS ANY BUTTONS HERE THAT I'M NOT SUPPOSED TO? UH, THE, UH, I GUESS THE MEETING'S OVER, UM,
SO DISCHARGE, DON'T THINK I PRESS ANYTHING.
THE, UH, WE HAVE, WE HAVE HAD, I'M ASSUMING THAT'S STILL WORKING, SO I'LL JUST KEEP TALKING.
THE, UH, WE HAVE HAD OUR BATTERIES OPERATING.
SOME OF OUR BATTERIES HAVE BEEN OPERATING FOR MORE THAN, UH, ALMOST FIVE YEARS NOW.
WE HAD 60 MEGAWATTS OF BATTERIES WORKING DURING STORM URI, AND NOW WE HAVE 3.2, UH, GIGAWATTS.
SO WE HAVE A LOT OF DATA IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, UH, WHAT THESE BATTERIES CAN DO AND, UH, HOW THEY PERFORM OVER EXTENDED YEARS OF TIME.
UH, THE DECLINE CURVE THAT WE WERE CONCERNED ABOUT IS, IS SUBSTANTIALLY LOWER THAN WHAT, UH, WE ANTICIPATED AND FORECASTED.
UM, THE BATTERIES ARE SHOWING ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF, UH, UH, OF, UH, DISCHARGE CAPABILITY EVEN AFTER FIVE YEARS.
SO WE'RE PRETTY HAPPY ABOUT HOW THE PERFORMANCE HAS BEEN.
UM, AND, AND NOW AS WE GO INTO THE NEAR, NEAR FUTURE, EVERYTHING IS GOING TO BE TWO HOURS AND BEYOND.
UH, LITHIUM HAS BEEN REALLY, REALLY GOOD IN TERMS OF, UH, WHAT IT CAN DO.
THE COST CURVE HAS COME DOWN DRAMATICALLY.
SO IF I WANT ANYTHING THAT'S 4, 6, 8 HOURS AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, I CAN JUST EXTEND THE LITHIUM TO BE, UH, WHAT I WANT IT TO BE.
SO I DON'T NEED NEW TECHNOLOGY TO SOLVE AN EIGHT HOUR PROBLEM AT THIS TIME.
UH, BUT THAT BEING SAID, I, OUR VIEW IS THAT WE NEED BEYOND EIGHT HOURS AS WELL.
SO WE'LL TALK ABOUT THAT A LITTLE BIT HERE.
UM, I DON'T KNOW ABOUT YOU GUYS, BUT THAT'S A PIERCING SOUND.
[00:15:02]
CAN I ASK A QUICK QUESTION WHILE YOU'RE WAITING ON THAT? YEAH.SO YOU DIDN'T REALLY SPEAK TO, UM, HOW LONG YOU PROJECT THESE BATTERIES TO, THEY'RE, THEY'RE USEFUL LIVE, YOU SAY YOU'VE GOT MORE INFORMATION.
WHAT DO YOU THINK IT LOOKS LIKE RIGHT NOW, JUST FROM YOUR PERSPECTIVE? YES.
SO WE, WE, WHEN WE STARTED OUR FIRST BATTERIES, WE WERE DESIGNING THESE THINGS WITH ABOUT A 2% DECLINE CURVE EVERY YEAR.
UH, SO ABOUT 15 YEARS IN, YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT A 70% CAPACITY FACTOR OR, UH, UH, USABLE LIFE, MAYBE 75% IF YOU TRULY DO THE MATH.
NOW WE ARE THINKING THAT IT'S GOING TO BE PROBABLY 80%, 82% USEFUL LIFE AFTER 15 YEARS.
AND, UM, A LOT OF THESE BATTERIES ARE NOW ASSUMING APPROXIMATELY A 7,000 CYCLE LIFETIME.
AND IF YOU DO ONE CYCLE A DAY THAT'S 365 CYCLES IN A YEAR, YOU'RE ALMOST TALKING ABOUT A 20 YEAR LIFE CYCLE.
IF YOU DO TWO HOUR CYCLES, IT'S A 10 YEAR, UM, LIFE CYCLE.
SO THAT'S THE GENERAL, UM, RULE OF TIME THAT WE HAVE.
SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 10 AND 20 YEARS, DEPENDING ON HOW YOU CYCLE THESE THINGS.
UH, ONE HOUR BATTERIES OBVIOUSLY ARE GOING TO BE CYCLE A LOT MORE.
FOUR HOURS ARE GOING TO BE A LOT LESS.
AND, UH, ASSUMING THAT YOU DO FOUR HOURS AND THE 1, 1 1 DAYS, ONE CYCLE A DAY, YOU'RE PROBABLY TALKING ABOUT 15 TO 20 YEARS, YOU'LL, YOU'LL END UP WITH ABOUT 80% USEFUL LIFE BY.
SO IF YOU PUT IN A A HUNDRED MEGAWATT HOUR, YOU'LL HAVE 80 MEGAWATT HOURS TO CHARGE THIS CHARGE IN ABOUT 15 YEARS.
I THINK THEY'RE GONNA HAVE TO PAUSE THE MEETING TO RESET THE SURVEY.
YEAH, LET'S, LET'S LET THEM DO A COMPLETE RESET.
'CAUSE THERE'S SOMETHING GOING ON WITH THE SOUND SYSTEM AS WELL AS THE, THE VISUAL AUDIO.
I LOOK INTO EVERY ONE OF THEM AND YEAH.
YEAH, BUT I THINK WE NEED NORIS.
UH, WE NEED THE MIC, THE MIC ON FRAME.
THE, UH, SO AS WE IS, AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T LIKE YOU, OH, THERE YOU GO.
YOU'RE ALL, IT'S IT'S MAGIC FINGERS.
UH, I WILL NOT TOUCH ANYTHING HERE.
THE, UH, SO WE WERE TALKING ABOUT, UM, LONG, UH, STORAGE BATTERIES AS WE HAVE THEM TODAY.
WHAT THE LIFECYCLE LOOKS LIKE 15 YEARS IS APPROXIMATELY THE LIFECYCLE FOR USABLE BATTERY SPACE THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY.
WE'RE TALKING ABOUT, UM, A FOUR HOUR BATTERY.
CAN IT BE CONVERTED INTO A TWO HOUR BATTERY IN A ONE HOUR BATTERY? IT'S REALLY HARD BECAUSE OF THE HEAT TRANSFER AND HOW THE, THE BATTERIES ARE DESIGNED.
UM, WE CAN TAKE A TWO HOUR BATTERY AND CONVERT TO A FOUR HOUR, BUT WE CAN'T GO BACKWARDS.
UH, INVERTERS BEING A LIMITING FACTOR AND HEAT TRANSFER BEING THE OTHER LIMITING FACTOR.
AND OBVIOUSLY WE, UH, AS NNG, UM, HAVE TWO VERY DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT, UM, BUSINESS CASES THAT WE WORK WITH.
WE HAVE A LOT OF RETAIL LOAD AND WE HAVE A LOT OF GENERATION SUPPLY, UH, THAT WE HAVE BUILT.
WE HAVE, UH, MORE THAN THREE GIGAWATTS OF GENERATION, UH, SOLAR AND WIND IN THE UNITED, UH, IN, IN TEXAS.
WE ALSO HAVE A BIG RETAIL PRESENCE, SO WE USE BATTERIES TO OFFSET A LOT OF OUR, UM, A LOT OF OUR, UM, INTERMITTENCY OR, UH, YOU KNOW, SHORTAGES IN, UM, IN, IN LOAD, UH, LOAD SERVING PORTFOLIOS AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE, WE HAVE, UH, BATTERIES HAVING USE CASE THAT IS INTERNAL TO OUR, UM, EXPOSURES AS WELL AS ANCILLARY SERVICE, UH, PRO UH, PROVIDING ANCILLARY SERVICES TO THE MARKETPLACE, UH, AS IS NEEDED.
THE, UM, THE, THE FUTURE AS WE SEE IT IS, UM, QUITE INTERESTING IN THAT SENSE THAT I DON'T THINK WE HAVE ENOUGH BATTERIES, AS YOU CAN SEE FROM, EVEN THOUGH WE HAVE 15 GIGAWATTS OF BATTERIES, WE STILL HAVE THE MIDDLE OF THE DAY PRINTING A LOT OF ZEROS.
UH, OVER THE LAST WEEK YOU SAW THAT, AND, UH, WE STILL SEE A NEED FOR, UM, STORAGE AS WE GO INTO THE NEXT FIVE YEARS.
WHAT YOU'LL NOTICE IS, UH, SOME OF THE, UM, ANALYSIS THAT WE'VE PUT TOGETHER THAT INTERNALLY TELLS US WHETHER WE HAVE ENOUGH BATTERIES OR WE NEED MORE BATTERIES IN ERCOT, AS, AS, UH, WE AT NG ARE CONCERNED ABOUT BUILDING MORE RENEWABLES HERE.
AND IN INCORPORATING MORE LOAD INTO OUR, UH, UH, CNI CUSTOMER BASE, THE, UM,
[00:20:01]
ON THE TOP RIGHT HAND SIDE, YOU'LL SEE THE JANUARY, 2030, UH, NET LOAD FIGURES AS WE HAVE IT IN, IN OUR, IN OUR MODELS.AND, UM, WHAT YOU'LL NOTICE IS THAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT A, IT'S STILL A QUITE A BIT OF A DUCK CURVE AND, UH, BATTERIES ARE SUPPOSED TO BE HELPING OUT IN TERMS OF SMOOTHING OUT THAT DUCK CURVE.
AND EVEN IN THE SUMMER, WE HAVE A FAIRLY LARGE AMOUNT OF, UH, OF NEED HERE.
NOW, WHAT THIS, WHAT THIS TELLS US IS THE DURATION NEEDS TO BE WIDENED A LITTLE BIT.
AND THIS IS THE QUESTION THAT YOU GUYS HAVE ABOUT WHAT, WHAT WE NEED TO DO.
THE TECHNOLOGY THAT WE HAVE CURRENTLY CAN BE EXTENDED FOR EIGHT HOURS RATHER EASILY.
LITHIUM IS INCREDIBLY ECONOMIC AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME.
SO WE DON'T SEE THE, A NEED FOR A VERY LARGE AMOUNT OF, UH, NEW TECHNOLOGY BEYOND WHAT WE HAVE TODAY TO SOLVE SOME OF THESE PROBLEMS THAT WE SEE EIGHT HOURS.
I CAN JUST BUILD MORE, UM, DURATION AS, AS YOU NOTICED, WE HAVE FIVE GIGAWATT HOURS OR DURATION AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME TO SOLVE ANY, WE CAN GO TO 10 GIGAWATT HOURS IF WE WANT TO.
AND, UM, SO IN THAT REGARD, WE DON'T SEE IN THE SHORT, IN A LONG TERM SCENARIO WHERE, WHERE WE NEED MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS.
AND I'LL, I'LL SHARE A, A COUPLE OF, UM, IDEAS ON WHERE WE WILL MOST LIKELY NEED MORE THAN EIGHT HOURS OR 12 HOURS OR LONG DURATION STORAGE AS WE TALK ABOUT ANYTHING ABOVE EIGHT HOURS.
UM, WHERE WE HAVE THIS NOT ANTICIPATING PROBLEMS IS A STORM URI OR SOMETHING THAT IS EXTENDED PERIOD OF TIME WHEN SOLAR DOES NOT SHOW UP.
THERE ARE SCENARIOS WHERE IF, IF YOU SIMULATE, YOU KNOW, THREE, FIVE YEARS, UH, WEATHER SCENARIOS, THERE ARE PERIODS OF TIME WHEN YOU WILL NOT SEE SOLAR HAPPEN FOR THREE TO FIVE DAYS.
YOU WILL NOT SEE WIND SHOW UP FOR TWO TO THREE DAYS.
HOW DO YOU CHARGE BATTERIES? THAT IS WHERE YOU NEED A LOT MORE OF THE LONG DURATION STORAGE AND THE TECHNOLOGY OVER THE INTO 20, 30 AND 35.
YOU MIGHT NEED SOMETHING LIKE A HUNDRED HOUR STORAGE OR A HUNDRED, UH, YOU KNOW, 168 OR A WEEK HOUR STORAGE.
THAT IS THE TECHNOLOGY THAT PROBABLY WILL NEED TO BE, UH, ECONOMICALLY INCENTIVIZED BECAUSE WE DON'T SEE SIGNALS AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME THAT IS A ONE IN A THREE YEAR, ONE IN A FIVE YEAR EVENT THAT WE, AT NG OR FOR THAT MATTER, A LARGE NUMBER OF BATTERY OPERATORS OR BATTERY DEVELOPERS ARE NOT GOING TO DESIGN BATTERIES FOR.
AND, UH, SO THIS IS WHERE WE ARE AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME, EVEN WITH 2030.
WE DON'T THINK THAT, UH, IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, I'VE GOT 26 GIGAWATTS OF BATTERIES AND WE STILL DON'T SEE A LARGE AMOUNT OF NEED FOR LONG DURATION, UM, BASED ON CURRENT CONDITIONS.
THE, THERE'S ANOTHER INTERESTING THING THAT BATTERIES NEED TO SOLVE, IN MY OPINION, UH, OUR OPINION AT ENG G AND THAT IS THE WHOLE NEW DATA, DATA CENTER LOAD THAT'S COMING IN.
THE TRANSIENT LOADS THAT WE HAVE IN DATA CENTERS IS AN INVERTER BASED, UH, OR IT ACTS ALMOST LIKE AN INVERTER BASE LOAD.
YOU HAVE A LOT OF MOTOR LOAD THAT WE HAVE DESIGNED OUR SYSTEMS FOR OVER THE LAST, UH, 70, 80 YEARS NOW THAT THE LOAD THAT'S SHOWING UP IS MUCH, MUCH MORE TRANSIENT AND IN INCRE, UH, A FUNDAMENTALLY DIFFERENT KIND.
AND IN ORDER TO SOLVE AN INVERTER BASED LOAD FROM SHOWING UP, YOU NEED AN INVERTER BASED SUPPLY AS WELL.
AND WHAT BETTER THAN A BATTERY TO SOLVE THAT PROBLEM? SO WE, WE THINK THAT BATTERIES AS WE GO INTO THE NEXT FEW YEARS, ARE GOING TO SOLVE.
AND, AND BATTERIES, WHEN I CALL, WHEN I TALK ABOUT BATTERIES, IT'S BOTH THE INVERTERS ARE THE GRID FORMING INVERTERS THAT BECOME A BACKBONE OF THE BATTERY SYSTEM AND THE BATTERY, THE ENERGY DURATION AS WELL.
SO TWO THINGS THAT COME BAND TOGETHER IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE, WE NEED THOSE INVERTERS TO SHOW UP.
AND, UH, THE, THE GRID FORMING, THE, THE FAST FREQUENCY RESPONSE THAT THE INVERTERS HAVE WILL BASICALLY PROVIDE A LOT MORE OF THE RELIABILITY THAT WE NEED AS THE, THE GPUS AND THE, UH, THE DATA CENTERS FLUCTUATE DRAMATICALLY IN, IN THE, IN THE SHORT TERM.
UM, SO THOSE ARE THE TWO USE CASES THAT WE ARE, UH, VERY, VERY, UH, INTERESTED IN IN SOLVING AS WE, AS WE BUILD UP OUR RELIABILITY, UH, VERY, VERY QUICKLY.
I KNOW WE WANT TALK ABOUT LONG DURATION HERE, UM, VERY QUICKLY.
RTCB HAS BEEN A, A REALLY GOOD, UH, ADD-ON TO WHAT, WHAT WE HAVE SEEN OVER THE LAST FIVE YEARS.
WE'VE DONE A LOT OF WORK IN TERMS OF, UH, UH, WE'RE ABOUT 20, 25% OF THE BATTERIES AND WE PARTICIPATE A LOT IN THE RTCB, UH, PORTION THERMALS WERE IN, UH,
[00:25:01]
THE NONS SPIN WAS AN INTERESTING DATA POINT THAT WE NOTICED THAT, UH, UM, WAS THE BIGGEST INFLUENCE IN OUR, IN OUR OPINION, IN TERMS OF HOW WE WERE PARTICIPATING BEFORE RTCB VERSUS POST RTCB.AND, UM, WE WERE DOING A LOT MORE NONS SPIN AS, UH, VERSUS WHAT WE WERE BEFORE.
AND THE STATE OF CHARGE COMPLIANCE IS, IS, UH, IS SO MUCH SIMPLER THAN IT WAS.
SO I THINK THERE'S A LOT MORE INFORMATION AND THAT, THAT ERCOT HAS AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME VERSUS, UH, UM, WHAT IT HAD IN TERMS OF WHAT THE BATTERIES WERE CAPABLE OF DOING.
AND, UM, I DON'T WANT TO SPEND TOO MUCH TIME ON IT, BUT RTCB HAS BEEN GREAT AND, UH, WELL DONE WITH IMPLEMENTING THAT.
UH, LET ME SPEND A COUPLE OF SECONDS, UM, ON, ON, UH, LONG DURATION.
WE AT NNG HAVE, UM, A, A RESEARCH DIVISION THAT, UH, THAT SPENDS ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF TIME ON IDENTIFYING NEW TECHNOLOGIES AND, UH, INNOVATION THAT'S HAPPENING IN THE BATTERY SPACE ACROSS THE GLOBE.
WE PLAN ON BUILDING SOMEWHERE IN THE BALLPARK OF 1520 GIGAWATTS ACROSS THE WORLD, UM, OVER THE NEXT FIVE TO 10 YEARS.
SO WE SPEND A LOT OF TIME TRYING TO GET ECONOMICALLY BETTER PRODUCT AS WELL AS, UH, YOU KNOW, NEW TECHNOLOGY THAT WE CAN INCENTIVIZE.
WE HAVE, UH, LOOKED AT DIFFERENT TECHNOLOGIES IN 2017.
WE, UH, IN BRAZIL, YOU KNOW, PILOTED WHAT IS, UH, KNOW THE ZINC BASED PRODUCT THAT, UH, YOU SEE AT THE VERY BOTTOM HERE.
AND, UH, THEY JUST HAVE NOT BEEN SCALABLE LIKE WE WOULD'VE WANTED THEM, BUT THEY ARE BUILDING, IT'S, IT'S JUST A STEP FUNCTION.
AT SOME POINT HERE, WE'LL HAVE A STEP FUNCTION IN PRODUCTIVITY THERE.
AND THE TECHNOLOGY ISN'T, IS, UM, AT THE CUSP OF SCALING.
A LOT OF THEM ARE NOT JUST, UH, ZINC.
THERE'S, THERE'S OTHERS AS WELL THAT, UH, ARE SHOWING UP QUITE, QUITE, UM, POPULAR SODIUM IS ANOTHER ONE THAT'S COMING UP HERE.
UH, THE, UM, OUR VIEW IS THAT BETWEEN THE, THE DAY ONE DAY STORAGE SPACE HAS BEEN SOLVED, IT'S THE BEYOND ONE DAY THAT WE NEED TO REALLY SPEND TIME ON.
AND THAT IS WHERE WE NEED TO SEND NEW INCENTIVES BECAUSE THE MARKET IS NOT SENDING THE INCENTIVES.
THE, UH, AS I SAID, ACROSS THE COUNTRY AND ACROSS THE WORLD, THE BIGGEST RISK WE HAVE IS BEYOND THE, THE DAYS WHEN SOLAR SHOW UP AS IF SOLAR DOES NOT SHOW UP FOR A DAY.
THE WORLD'S NOT ENDING IF IT DOESN'T SHOW UP FOR THREE OR FOUR DAYS.
IF, IF WIND DOES NOT SHOW UP FOR THREE OR FOUR DAYS, THAT'S WHERE WE HAVE A, A SITUATION WHERE WE ARE GOING TO BE ENERGY SHORT IN THE COUNTRY OR IN IN THE REGION THAT OF, OF CHOICE.
AND, UM, WE, AS, AS A, AS AN INDUSTRY, WE NEED TO INCENTIVIZE ONE WEEK STORAGE OR BEYOND, SOMEWHERE IN THAT BALLPARK.
AND, UH, THE TECHNOLOGY IS THERE, IT IS SLOW TO SCALE FOR, FOR TWO REASONS.
TWO IS THERE'S NOBODY OUT THERE SUPPORTING THEM AT, UH, TO, TO DEVELOP AND PROTOTYPE THERE.
THEY'RE 1, 2, 3 MEGAWATT PROJECTS ALL OVER THE PLACE, BUT WE NEED TO GET THEM TO THE HUNDREDS AND THE THOUSANDS VERY QUICKLY.
'CAUSE WHEN WE ARE SHORT, WE'RE GONNA BE SHORT THOUSANDS.
WE'RE NOT GONNA BE SHORT A HUNDRED.
THE, UM, THE INVERTERS ARE THERE.
WE WILL SOLVE ALL THE VOLTAGE RIGHT THROUGH ISSUES, WE'LL SOLVE ALL THE TRANSMISSION CONSTRAINT ISSUES.
UH, THE, THE, THE TRANSIENT PROBLEMS THAT WE HAVE, WE WILL SOLVE THOSE.
THAT'S, THAT TECHNOLOGY'S ALREADY HERE.
IT'S THE LONG DURATION INCENTIVES THAT WE NEED TO SEND.
UM, I'M, I CAN PAUSE HERE AND SEE IF YOU GUYS HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON LONG DURATION AND, AND GO IN THE DIRECTION THAT YOU GUYS WANT.
SAY A LITTLE BIT MORE ABOUT WHAT YOU, WHAT ECONOMIC SIGNALS YOU THINK YOU NEED IN ORDER TO DO THAT.
UH, THE, OBVIOUSLY THE, THE, THE SIMPLE ANSWER IS SOME VERSION OF A, A CONTRACTED CASH FLOW, RIGHT? THAT, THAT'S A SIMPLE ONE.
UH, I DO NOT WANT TO USE WORDS THAT, UH, WILL BE COMING BACK TO HAUNT ME, LIKE A CAPACITY MARKET OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT,
BUT THE, THE IDEA GENERALLY IS THAT THE, THE, THE FIRST SECTION IS WE, WE NEED TO BE, IF THERE IS VALUE TO THESE PRODUCTS, A LONG DURATION PRODUCT,
[00:30:01]
WE NEED TO FIGURE OUT AS, AS AN INDUSTRY, HOW DO WE INCENTIVIZE IT? FIRST STEP WE NEED TO PROTOTYPE AND MAKE SURE THAT THESE THINGS ACTUALLY DO WHAT THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO DO.AND, UH, SO PROTOTYPING AND HELPING TEST THESE SYSTEMS OUT WILL BE IMPORTANT.
SECOND IS, UH, ASKING HOW MUCH OF THIS DO WE WANT? AND, UH, AND THEN SENDING THE SIGNALS OUT AFTER THE FACT.
DRRS IS A GREAT EXAMPLE OF SAYING WE WANTED NOW FOR OUR DURATION ANCILLARY SERVICE PRODUCT TO SOLVE A PROBLEM.
WE'VE PUT A LOT OF EFFORT IN TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN.
IF WE AS AN INDUSTRY THINK THAT WE NEED SEVEN DAY STORAGE, LET'S GO AND SEE IF WE CAN ACTUALLY BUILD SEVEN DAY STORAGE, WHAT THE COST STRUCTURES LOOK LIKE.
WHAT ARE THEY LOCATIONS WE NEED TO PUT THESE AT? ARE WE GOING TO PUT THEM IN, IN A WEST TEXAS OR A PANHANDLE REGION? ARE WE GONNA PUT IT IN A HOUSTON ZONE REGION WHERE YOU DON'T HAVE, UH, ALTERNATIVES TO, TO THE, SO WHERE DO YOU WANT TO PUT THEM? HOW DO YOU WANT TO PUT THEM AND WHEN DO YOU WANT TO PUT THEM? THOSE ARE THINGS THAT WE'LL NEED TO SEND OUT IN TERMS OF SIGNALS.
AND THERE ARE DIFFERENT CONSTRUCTS YOU CAN SEND IN TERMS OF, UH, ECONOMICS.
YOU CAN, AS I SAID, YOU CAN DO A CAPACITY CONTRACT OR YOU CAN GIVE THEM OTHER INCENTIVES TO, TO, UH, TO, UM, BUILD THESE THINGS.
BUT FIRST THINGS FIRST, I THINK THE PROTOTYPING IS THE BIGGEST ISSUE.
AND, UM, AND THAT'S WHERE WE'LL NEED THE HELP.
'CAUSE THESE THINGS ARE 3, 4, 5 YEARS OUT.
AND EVEN IF I, EVEN IF YOU, I DON'T THINK WE CAN CREATE A, A STRUCTURE FOR LARGE SCALE IMPLEMENTATION AT THIS MOMENT IN TIME BECAUSE THE TECHNOLOGY'S NOT THERE.
SO WE'LL HAVE TO DO THE PROTOTYPING FIRST.
COULD YOU THINK OF AN ANCILLARY SERVICE MODEL THAT MIGHT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT INCENTIVES? I MEAN, SORT OF A-D-R-R-S PLUS PLUS PLUS
SO HOW ARE WE GOING TO SET UP A-D-R-R-S PLUS PLUS PLUS IF WE DO NOT KNOW WHAT WE WILL NEED? SO THERE'S STILL A LOT OF STUDYING TO BE DONE IN, IN, AND SIMULATIONS TO BE MADE IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, THE CONDITIONS ARE AND HOW OFTEN THEY HAPPEN WHEN WE NEED SEVEN DAYS WORTH OF STORAGE.
SO IF YOU THINK ABOUT, UM, A SET AMOUNT OF ENERGY, CAN YOU GIVE AN IDEA OF THE, THE, THE DIFFERENCE IN PRICE OF A ONE HOUR BATTERY VERSUS MAYBE A A 10 HOUR BATTERY AS FAR AS THE, THE INVERTERS, IS IT, IS IT A LOT CHEAPER TO BUILD A 10 HOUR BATTERY THAN IT WOULD BE A ONE HOUR BATTERY OR, YEAH, THE, THE WAY, UM, I WOULD BREAK THAT DOWN IS, UM, OBVIOUSLY INTERCONNECTION COSTS BEING THE SAME FOR BOTH, BOTH, UM, ONE HOUR AND 10 HOUR BATTERIES.
THE BALANCE OF PLANT, WHICH IS EFFECTIVELY THE, UM, THE LAND, THE INTERCONNECTION AND ALL OF THE ADDITIONAL SERVICES ASSOCIATED WITH IT ARE CONSTANT.
AND THE ENERGY POR UH, THE, THE NEW BATTERIES THAT WE ARE PROCURING HAVE EITHER TWO HOUR, THREE A DAY, THEY COME WITH INVERTERS EMBEDDED IN THE, IN THE BOXES THAT YOU SEE FOR BATTERIES.
NOW THE NEW TECHNOLOGY WITH THE, WITH THE, THE LONG DURATION STUFF MIGHT HAVE A DIFFERENT SETUP, BUT REALLY THE TANK FOR A 10 HOUR BATTERY VERSUS ONE HOUR BATTERY FLUCTUATES.
EVERYTHING ELSE REMAINS THE SAME.
SO PER KILOWATT HOUR, OUR PRICE GOES DOWN AS YOU BUILD LONGER TERM, BUT THE PER KILOWATT GOES UP JUST A, SO A 10 HOUR BATTERY PER KILOWATT IS SOMEWHERE IN THE BALLPARK OF $2,000.
APPROXIMATELY PER KILOWATT HOUR WOULD BE 200.
RIGHT? AND FOR A ONE HOUR BATTERY, THE PER KILOWATT IS 600 OR SO PER KILOWATT HOUR IS 600.
THAT'S, THAT'S HOW I LOOK AT IT IN TERMS OF WHAT THE, WHAT THE NUMBERS ARE AND HOW I, I PARSE THEM OUT.
AND NOW THE, THE REVENUES NEED TO EFFECTIVELY PAY FOR THE 2000, NOT THE 200 AND THE 700 INSTEAD OF, UH, 600,
[00:35:01]
WHATEVER THE ONE HOUR BATTERY IS.THE, UM, SO SEPARATING THEM OUT, IT REALLY, AT THE END OF THE DAY, YOU, YOU CAN CARVE IT ANY WHICH WAY POSSIBLE.
I STILL AM GOING TO BE PUTTING IN A LARGER AMOUNT OF CAPEX INTO A 10 HOUR BATTERY THAN A ONE HOUR BATTERY TO THE TUNE OF TWO AND A HALF TIMES, MAYBE THREE TIMES.
AND I WILL NEED THREE X THE REVENUES FOR A 10 HOUR BATTERY VERSUS A ONE HOUR BATTERY.
SO, SO THE LONGER DURATION BATTERY IS ACTUALLY MORE EXPENSIVE.
ANY OTHER QUESTIONS FOR NARS? NO, THANK YOU SIR.
[5. Recommendation regarding T&S Committee Charter]
LET'S GO ON TO ITEM NUMBER FIVE.UM, AS WE LOVE TO DO, WE'RE GONNA REVISE THE COMMITTEE CHARTER.
I ASSUME THAT YOU'VE ALL LOOKED AT THIS.
WHAT WE'RE DOING IS ADDING A SECTION INTO THE CHARTER, UH, THAT IS GOING TO, UH, DEAL WITH ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE.
ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE HAS ALWAYS BEEN A REMIT OF THIS COMMITTEE.
UM, BUT WE'RE GONNA FORMALIZE THAT AND WE'VE BEEN THROUGH QUITE AN EXHAUSTIVE PROCESS, UH, THANKS TO KIM AND HER TEAM, UM, GOING THROUGH AND LOOKING AT WHAT OTHER PEOPLE HAVE DONE, BOTH ACADEMIA AND LEGALLY LOOKING AT RESEARCH BEST PRACTICES.
UH, AND WE'VE MADE A SERIES OF REVISIONS TO THE CHARTER THAT YOU CAN SEE THERE, THERE ARE ACTUALLY FIVE POINTS OF REVISION.
UM, IT'S VERY SIMILAR IN STRUCTURE TO THE, UH, OTHER PARTS OF THE CHARTER, WHICH AS YOU RECALL, OUR INFORMATION TECHNOLOGY SECURITY, UH, GRID, UM, GRIT AS WE, AS WE CALL IT, INNOVATION TECHNOLOGIES.
AND, AND, AND, AND NOW WE'RE ADDING ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE AS WELL.
UM, ARE THERE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT THIS? UM, AND IF NOT, CAN I HAVE A MOTION TO APPROVE THIS, THIS, THIS, THIS IS AGAIN, THE CHARTER.
THIS IS NOT THE STRATEGY
THIS IS MERELY THE FRAMEWORK THAT, UH, JP AND, AND THE TEAM ARE GONNA USE TO POPULATE, UH, THE, THE STRATEGY WITH MOVE TO APPROVE.
ANY DISCUSSION? YEAH, I, I WOULD JUST LIKE TO ASK THE QUESTION I ASKED, UM, EARLIER TODAY.
IT, IT'S CLEAR THAT THE BOARD IS, AND THE COMMITTEE IS GOING TO, UH, APPROVE AND MONITOR THE AI STRATEGY PRESENTED BY MANAGEMENT, CORRECT? MM-HMM
UH, ALL IN FAVOR? ANY OPPOSED? MOTION IS CARRIED.
[6.1 Projects and Technology Update]
WE'RE NOW GOING TO MOVE ON TO ITEM SIX, WHICH MANDY'S GONNA DO.AND THIS IS AN UPDATE ON OUR PROJECTS.
UM, MEMBERS OF THE COMMITTEE WILL RECALL IT.
RTC IS PLUS B HAS BEEN OUR MAJOR PROJECT OF THE LAST YEAR.
NOW THAT THAT'S SUCCESSFULLY OUTTA THE WAY, WE'RE KIND OF BACK TO BUSINESS AS USUAL.
UM, AND UH, THAT MEANS THAT THERE'S A LOT OF IMPORTANT, UH, PROJECTS, SOME SMALL, SOME LARGE, AND MANDY'S GONNA GIVE US A QUICK UPDATE ON WHAT'S GOING ON THERE.
UM, YES, SO MY NAME IS MANDY BALD.
I'M THE SENIOR DIRECTOR OF PROJECT MANAGEMENT OFFICE AT ERCOT.
AND AS MR. SWEN HAS SAID, WE'LL, WE ARE MAKING A TRANSITION KIND OF PIVOTING THIS YEAR, UM, AS WE WIND DOWN ON RTC PLUS B AND TURN OUR ATTENTION TO OTHER EFFORTS.
AND JP OBVIOUSLY SPOKE ABOUT THAT LAST YEAR.
UM, AND HERE ARE JUST SOME OVERALL STATS AS WE LOOKED AT OUR DELIVERY IN 2025.
UM, COUPLE THINGS I WANT TO CALL OUT IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, DELIVERY.
LAST YEAR WE, WE DID TALK A LOT ABOUT RTC PLUS B REQUIRING HEAVY RESOURCE ATTENTION, AND THAT WAS OUR PRIORITY.
WE MADE DECISIONS ALONG THE WAY TO MAKE SURE WE COULD SUPPORT THAT, BUT I DON'T WANT IT TO BE LOST THAT THERE WAS ALSO HEALTHY DELIVERY IN OTHER AREAS WHERE RESOURCES WERE NOT IMPACTED OR SYSTEMS WERE NOT IMPACTED BY RTC PLUS B, WE MAXIMIZED OUR ABILITY TO MAKE PROGRESS ON THOSE INITIATIVES WHERE POSSIBLE.
SO VARIOUS TECH HEALTH RELATED EFFORTS OR OTHER INTERNAL STRATEGIC OR ENHANCEMENT RELATED EFFORTS.
[00:40:01]
UM, WE DID GET A LOT OF FOCUS AND WE DID DELIVER ON THOSE LAST YEAR AS WELL.UM, SO THERE WAS A LOT OF GOOD WORK DONE EVEN OUTSIDE OF THE PROGRAM, ALTHOUGH MUCH OF WHAT WE HIGHLIGHTED TO YOU WAS REALLY A HEAVY FOCUS ON THE PROGRAM.
UM, IN TERMS OF RTC PLUS B, JUST A FEW KIND OF REMARKS TO MAKE AS WE COME DOWN OFF OF THAT.
UM, YOU KNOW, WE DON'T HAVE A, A SEPARATE REPORT ON IT ANYMORE, BUT IT'S FINAL RELEASE IS TARGETED FOR MAY OF THIS YEAR IN ALIGNMENT WITH PUBLICATION OF THE 180 DAY REPORTS.
UM, WE HAVE BEEN TAPERING DOWN REALLY ON THE ACTIVITY AS WE WORKED THROUGH TRIAGED, UM, DEFECTS THAT WERE DEFERRED TO POST GOLIVE AFTER THE TRIAGE PROCESS.
SO THERE IS SOME ACTIVITY AROUND THAT THIS SPRING.
A SUBSET OF RESOURCES ARE STILL FOCUSED ON THOSE REPORTING AND DATA PRODUCTS THAT GO LIVE IN LATE MAY.
UM, AND WE WILL CONTINUE TO FOCUS THERE, BUT IT IS FREEING UP RESOURCES FOR OTHER WORK.
I DID ALSO WANNA MENTION WE DO CONTINUE TO TRACK SLIGHTLY UNDER BUDGET ON THAT PROGRAM OVERALL.
SO, UH, THOSE TRENDS ARE VERY GOOD OVERALL AS WE BEGIN TO DECOMMISSION SOME OF THAT INFRASTRUCTURE AND GET SOME OF THOSE CREDITS BACK, WE ARE TRACKING AS PLANNED.
ALL RIGHT, WHEN WE THINK ABOUT 2026 AND KIND OF THE SHIFTING AWAY FROM SOME OF THE LIMITATION WE HAD ON OUR OVERALL RESOURCE CAPACITY, UM, WE ARE RAMPING UP.
WE'VE HAD QUITE A FEW NEW START PROJECTS ALREADY.
UH, AND I WOULD SAY THE MAIN TAKEAWAY FOR THIS GROUP IS WE ARE GEARING UP AND RAMPING UP AS REPORTED HERE.
UM, LAST YEAR AT ANY POINT IN TIME WE WERE TYPICALLY RUNNING AROUND 56 CONCURRENT PROJECTS.
SO WE ALWAYS HOVERED AROUND THE, THE MID FIFTIES.
WE'VE ALREADY JUMPED UP ABOVE 60 AND WE DO EXPECT THAT COUNT OF OUR TOTAL PROJECT PORTFOLIO TO INCREASE AS WE WORK THROUGH Q1.
SO WE ARE GEARING UP, WE'RE SEEING FOLKS COME OFF THOSE PROJECTS AND WE'RE PLUGGING THEM INTO OTHER WORK.
THIS INCLUDES BACKLOGGED REVISION REQUESTS, NEW REVISION REQUESTS COMING THROUGH, AND THEN OTHER STRATEGIC AND TECHNICAL HEALTH THAT WE HAVE, UM, QUEUED UP IN OUR PORTFOLIO OVERALL.
OKAY, SO YOU'VE SEEN THESE CHARTS AS WELL.
AND UM, THE SHAPE HERE ECHOES WHAT I JUST MENTIONED, THAT WE, WE STILL SEE A PRETTY HEAVY WORKLOAD AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
UH, AS YOU LOOK AHEAD TOWARDS MARCH.
IT IS WORTH NOTING THAT BECAUSE WE HAVE A LOT OF NEW STARTS PLANNED THROUGH Q1 AND Q2, WE'RE WORKING OFF SOME ESTIMATES OF EARLY DATA THAT AS WE APPROACH THOSE MONTHS, OUR PORTFOLIO MANAGEMENT TEAM WILL DO A RESOURCE ANALYSIS TO DETERMINE IS IT THE RIGHT TIME TO START THOSE EFFORTS.
BUT THIS DEFINITELY TELLS THE STORY OF WE'RE GEARING UP AND, AND BEGINNING TO PICK UP SOME ADDITIONAL PROJECT LOAD.
UM, AND AS WE LOOK BACK AT 2025, UH, THE STORY HERE AND THERE'S AN APPENDIX SLIDE AS WELL, IS REALLY JUST TO CALL OUT WHAT JP HAD MENTIONED LAST YEAR.
SO 10 OUT OF OUR 12 MONTHS IN 2025 HIT PRE, UH, HIT A PEAK IN TERMS OF, UH, PROJECT LABOR AND VERY LARGELY DRIVEN BY RTC PLUS B AND FOLKS PUTTING IN TREMENDOUS EFFORT TO ENSURE WE GOT TO THE FINISH LINE ON THAT EFFORT AS PLANNED BY DECEMBER 5TH.
SO WE DO EXPECT TO COME DOWN IN 2026, UM, MAYBE NOT QUITE TO OUR, OUR PRE RTC LEVELS.
I THINK WE'LL STAY, WE'LL STAY FAIRLY HIGH, BUT NOT NEAR AT THAT, UH, PEAK THAT WE HIT IN 2026, OR I'M SORRY, 2025.
ONTO OTHER SIGNIFICANT EFFORTS THIS YEAR.
SO THERE'S A FEW THAT WE WANTED TO CALL OUT TO YOU AS WE MOVE INTO 2026 AND WE'LL BRING BACK REPORTS AS WE COME, COME HERE THROUGHOUT THE YEAR.
UH, THE FIRST IS THE IDENTITY AND ACCESS MANAGEMENT PROGRAM.
SO CALLING THIS OUT IS SIGNIFICANT BECAUSE IT IS A LARGE PROGRAM FOCUSED ON THE MODERNIZATION OF, UM, HOW WE PROVISION ACCESS AND AUTHORIZE USERS INTO THE SYSTEM AND HOW WE GOVERN ALL OF THAT.
UM, IT'S MULTI-YEAR MULTI-PROJECT RELATED PROGRAM.
AND FROM A MARKET FACING PERSPECTIVE, THIS IS THE EFFORT THAT IS INTENDED TO REPLACE OUR USE OF DIGITAL CERTIFICATES.
SO THAT IS ANOTHER REASON WHY YOU GUYS WILL, I'M SURE, WANNA HAVE AN EYE ON WHAT'S HAPPENING HERE.
UM, AS WE, THESE PROJECTS ARE NEW, THEY'VE JUST STARTED AND AS WE PROGRESS ON THOSE THROUGHOUT THE YEARS, WE WILL CONTINUE TO REPORT AT THE TECHNOLOGY WORKING GROUP ON OUR PLANS AND WORKING WITH AND COORDINATING WITH THE MARKET STAKEHOLDERS ON HOW THAT IMPACTS THEM AND HOW THEY CAN PLAN FOR THOSE CHANGES AS WELL.
SO WE HAVE DREW BONZER WHO WILL GIVE US ADDITIONAL REPORTING, NOT THIS MONTH, BUT IN APRIL.
UM, SO JUST WANTED TO PUT ON YOUR RADAR THAT THAT IS SOMETHING WE'LL TALK FURTHER ABOUT IN AS WE MOVE FORWARD.
SO FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO'VE BEEN HERE A WHILE, WE KEEP TALKING ABOUT OUR DATA CENTER REFRESHES.
[00:45:01]
WE PUT A BOW ON DC FIVE AND NOW WE ARE BEGINNING TO SHIFT GEARS TO DC SIX TO REPLACE THE INFRASTRUCTURE IN OUR DATA CENTERS.UH, THOSE EFFORTS HAVE NOT TECHNICALLY STARTED AS PROJECTS, THEY'RE IN THEIR CHARTERING PHASE AT THIS POINT, BUT THAT PROGRAM, IT, AGAIN, IT'LL BE MULTI-YEAR MULTI-PROJECT.
SO THAT'LL BE SOMETHING THAT BRIAN HANLEY WILL BE ABLE TO SPEAK TO YOU ABOUT IN FUTURE MONTHS AS WELL.
AND THEN FINALLY, AN EFFORT THAT MAY NOT BE AS SIGNIFICANT IN TERMS OF PROGRAM SIZE BUT TO EXTERNAL PARTIES, UM, IS SIGNIFICANT IS OUR REDESIGN OF OUR ERCOT.COM WEBSITE AND LOOKING FORWARD TO THE ENHANCEMENTS, IMPROVEMENTS AND JUST KIND OF OVERALL MODERNIZATION OF THAT SITE.
SO AS WE MOVE FORWARD THROUGH THAT PROJECT THIS YEAR, WE INTEND TO BRING YOU GUYS AN UPDATE LATER THIS YEAR ON THAT AS WELL.
MAN USED TO COMMENT ON THESE, UM, ON THE DATA CENTER SIX PROGRAM, WHEN YOU BRING THAT BACK TO THIS BOARD, I THINK BRINGING IT EARLY ENOUGH THAT WE CAN HAVE SOME INFLUENCE ON IT, I THINK WOULD BE USEFUL.
UM, DC FIVE AS I RECALL WAS SORT OF ALREADY IN FLIGHT BY THE TIME THE BOARD GOT, THIS COMMITTEE CERTAINLY GOT FORMED AND SO WE DIDN'T REALLY HAVE MUCH INPUT TO IT, BUT, BUT IT SOUNDS TO ME LIKE WE'LL BE EARLY ENOUGH IN THIS PROCESS THAT WE CAN, UH, GIVE YOU SOME GUIDANCE ON WHAT WE'D LIKE.
AND THEN HERE, JUST SOME CHANGES THAT, UH, WE EXPECT FROM A MARKET FACING STANDPOINT ANYWAYS TO ROLL OUT HERE IN THE NEXT FEW MONTHS BETWEEN NOW AND OUR NEXT BOARD MEETING.
SO AGAIN, KIND AS WE CLOSE, AS I CLOSE THIS OUT, REALLY JUST THAT REMINDER OF WE ARE GEARING UP, WE ARE LOOKING FORWARD TO, UM, ADDRESSING SOME OF THE OTHER IMPORTANT WORK THAT HAS BEEN IN OUR QUEUE.
AND, AND THAT IS NEW TO START THIS YEAR.
AND WE ARE SHIFTING GEARS TO THAT AND THAT FOR FOLKS EXTERNAL TO ERCOT WHERE THESE PROJECTS ARE MARKET FACING, UM, CONTINUE TO TUNE INTO THE TECHNOLOGY WORKING GROUP AS THAT IS THE FORUM WHERE, UM, WE GET INTO IMPLEMENTATION DETAILS IN TERMS OF HOW THEY CAN AFFECT, UH, SHOPS THAT NEED TO MAKE THOSE CHANGES AS WELL.
THIS, THIS MAY BE A QUESTION FOR JP, WHERE, WHERE DOES THE ANCILLARY SERVICE PRICING CURVE STUFF PLAY IN? UH, WE WILL DO THAT AS PART OF THE RTC BECAUSE THEY'RE FACTORED IN, UNLESS THERE IS SOME NEW, UH, NPRR THAT'S COMING IN.
BUT ANYTHING THAT WE, WE ARE CALLING IT TUNING OR ADJUSTMENTS, WE'LL DO IT AS PART OF RTC.
BUT, BUT IT'S GONNA BE PART OF JUST A NORMAL NPR PROCESS.
WE DON'T HAVE, WE DON'T NEED TO BRING IT UP HERE.
IT'S NOT GOING UNDER CONTROVERSIAL IN THAT SENSE.
WE TALKED ABOUT IT ENOUGH, BUT IT'S GONNA BE LIKE A REGULAR NPR.
ANNIE, THANK YOU FOR YOUR PRESENTATION.
THIS MAY NOT BE A QUESTION YOU CAN ANSWER, BUT YOU COULD DIRECT ME TO THE RIGHT PERSON WITH REGARD TO THE EXTERNAL WEBSITE.
UM, DO WE HAVE A SET OF WHAT I WOULD CALL CUSTOMER SERVICE METRICS? SO WE ALREADY KNOW WHAT THE CURRENT LIKE BASELINE WEBSITE, HOW IT'S INTERACTED WITH AND HOW MANY ERRORS AND CYCLE TIME ISSUES WE HAVE WITH IT SO WE CAN MEASURE PRE AND POST SERVICE METRICS.
SO THE TEAM THAT HAS BUSINESS OWNERSHIP OF THAT WEBSITE AND OUR TECHNICAL SUPPORTING TEAMS, THEY DO TRACK A NUMBER OF METRICS.
I DON'T KNOW IF THERE'S ANYONE HERE WHO COULD SPEAK TO SPECIFICALLY WHICH ONES, BUT UM, THERE ARE BENCHMARKS THEY HAVE AS WE START ON THIS EFFORT.
SO WE DO TRACK BOTH TECHNICAL METRICS IN TERMS OF, YOU KNOW, UM, NUMBER OF PEOPLE ON A SITE, HOW LONG THEY SPEND, WHERE DO THEY SPEND THE MOST TIME, THOSE KIND OF THINGS.
MM-HMM
AND THOSE ARE THE FEEDBACK WE ARE COMING BACK WITH MORE ABOUT FUNCTIONALITY THAN TECHNICAL ISSUES.
WE DON'T GENERALLY HAVE TECHNICAL ISSUES.
IT WENT SMOOTH THROUGH THE STORM, FOR EXAMPLE.
UM, NO ONE HAD ANY DELAYS, NO REPORTS COMPARED TO WHAT WE SAW SOME YEARS AGO.
IT MIGHT BE INFORMATIVE JUST TO SHARE WITH US LIKE THE TOP 10 THINGS YOU'RE TRYING TO CHANGE WITH THE NEW WEBSITE.
I WILL BE OF INTEREST AND I SUSPECT THAT THERE ARE SOME THINGS THAT YOU CAN DO TO MAKE IT MORE COMPREHENSIBLE TO, UH,
I WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT YOU
I WAS, I WAS THINKING ABOUT THE PUBLIC AT LARGE.
UH, THERE ARE THINGS ON THE WEBSITE THAT EVEN I SOMETIMES HAVE TO SQUINT AT AND FIGURE OUT WHAT, WHAT THE HELL IS THIS TRYING TO TELL ME? SO YES, WE'LL TAKE THAT.
WE CAN BRING THAT BACK IN AS WE TARGET THIS UPDATE IN THE FUTURE, MR. CHAIRMAN, BUT I CAN CHIME IN TOO.
UM, WHAT ARE, I MEAN THERE IS ALL THE INFORMATION YOU EVER NEED, THE WORLD IS THERE, IT'S JUST VIRTUALLY IMPOSSIBLE FOR A
[00:50:01]
NON A PERSON THAT DOESN'T USE IT EVERY DAY TO BE ABLE TO GET TO IT.SO YOU NEED A REALLY ROBUST SEARCH FUNCTION THAT WILL TAKE YOU RIGHT TO WHAT YOU'RE LOOKING FOR.
AND THAT'S SOME OTHER FEEDBACK WE ARE TRYING TO ADDRESS.
LIKE WHO IS IT FOR? IS IT FOR MARKET PARTICIPANTS, IS IT FOR GENERAL USERS? AND DURING A STORM, FOR EXAMPLE, WHEN AIR CO.COM GETS MENTIONED IN THE NEWS, IT'S NOT MARKET PARTICIPANTS COMING TO OUR WEBSITE, IT'S GENERAL PUBLIC.
SO HOW DO WE HANDLE THOSE KIND OF TRAFFIC? WHAT IS THE INFORMATION WE ARE PRO PROTECTING THEM? SO, SO WE'LL COME BACK TO THE BOARD AND TALK ABOUT WHAT WE ARE FINDING, WHAT WE ARE.
AND THAT BRINGS UP A GOOD POINT.
SHOULD THERE BE A MEMBER'S PORTION OF THE SITE THAT IS FOR, FOR ERCOT ERCOT MEMBERS? AND SHOULD THERE BE ANOTHER PORTION THAT'S FOR THE GENERAL PUBLIC? YEAH, I, I DON'T KNOW THE ANSWER TO THAT, BUT I THINK IT'S A, IT'S A GOOD QUESTION TO ASK AND THERE IS TODAY, IF WE LOOK AT MIS
IF YOU GO TO
ARE THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? THANK YOU MANDY.
[7. Future Agenda Items]
ITEM, ITEM SEVEN, FUTURE AGENDA ITEMS IN JP.SO THIS ONE IS USUALLY WHERE I ASK THE THE COMMITTEE IF THERE ARE ANY TOPICS THAT THE COMMITTEE IS INTERESTED IN THAT I CAN BRING EXTERNAL SPEAKERS LIKE WE HAD, UH, UH, TODAY WITH NG AND OTHERS.
UM, I, I THINK ONE ON OUR LIST WAS, UM, UH, JULIE BROUGHT THIS A BIT, UM, UH, TEXAS TECHNICAL UNIVERSITY WITH DR.
HAD THEY, THEY HAVE THEIR OWN GRID WHERE THE STUDY GRID STABILIZATION, STABILITY AND ALL THAT.
SO MAYBE THAT'S THE TOPIC WE CAN, UH, PURSUE.
THAT'S ONE ON MY LIST ALREADY, BUT IF THERE ARE ANY OTHERS, UM, UM, THERE'S ALSO A PROJECT AT TEXAS TECH I THINK THAT, UH, IS IS LOOKING AT ADVANCED NUCLEAR STUFF.
YEAH, THAT'S, THAT'S ANOTHER GOOD ONE.
WE CAN ASK ABOUT THEIR PROGRESS AND COME BACK WITH THAT.
YOU KNOW, THIS, THE WAY THIS PROCESS WORKS IS, IS, YOU KNOW, IS THAT, YOU KNOW, WE HAVE A, A JP AND I HAVE A LIST OF INTERESTING THINGS THAT WE'D LIKE AND THEN, THEN IT BECOMES A QUESTION OF HOW CAN WE SYNCHRONIZE THEIR CALENDAR AND OUR CALENDAR.
SO, BUT UH, AND, AND THERE ARE A FEW OTHER THINGS THAT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED IN THE PAST THAT WE'RE STILL WORKING ON.
SO, WE'LL, WE'LL KEEP DOING THAT.
BUT, YOU KNOW, BRINGING, BRINGING IN EXTERNAL SPEAKERS I THINK IS A VERY USEFUL MECHANISM TO JUST GET INSIGHT INTO WHAT ELSE IS GOING ON.
AND FEEL FREE TO EMAIL ME OFFLINE TOO 'CAUSE IT TAKES SOME TIME TO GET PEOPLE.
SO, UM, I REALLY WORK WITH JOHN ON THAT.
UH, THE LAST ITEM ON THE REGULAR SESSION IS ITEM EIGHT.
ANY OTHER BUSINESS, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE FOR US TO DEAL WITH IN REGULAR SESSION? IF NOT, WE'RE
[Convene Executive Session]
GONNA ADJOURN AND GO INTO PRIVATE SESSION.THERE ARE NO VOTING ITEMS THAT ARE ANTICIPATED DURING THE EXECUTIVE SESSION.
UM, SO WE WILL NOT RECONVENE IN, IN A GENERAL SESSION FOLLOWING THAT GENERAL SESSION IS NOW ADJOURNED.
THE WEBCAST WILL BE CONCLUDED, UH, CHAIRMAN GLEASON, THIS MAY, A PUBLIC UTILITY COMMISSION OF TEXAS IS HEREBY ADJOURNED.
WE'LL TAKE A FEW MINUTES TO DISCONNECT AND UH, THEN WE'LL COME BACK IN EXECUTIVE SESSION.